I was looking into University of Portland's nursing program, and came across a video about how their nursing school and others in the Portland area are especially difficult to get into because there is no nursing shortage in Portland. Here's the video if you want to check it out:
Where exactly is the nursing shortage? Would these locations be relatively easier to get into? Does the location of where you get your degree matter after graduation?
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
What I meant by it is that news media stations, especially CNN, msnbc, etc are not balanced. They write some good articles and informative at that but again they too are humans and therefore have opinions. Numbers on the other hand are hard, true and factual.
I disagree with that statement. Numbers are malleable and can be manipulated just like an editorial slant in a news story. Lucky for us now we have access to vastly more sources than in the past, and we must independently evaluate and decide which ones we find the most trustworthy. The financial reporting side of CNN is pretty middle-of-the-road in my opinion. Yours may differ, but generally speaking a Press Release from a self-interested trade group is not balanced. I wouldn't expect a balanced Press Release about milk to come from the National Dairy Council, either.
I also find your objections confusing because as I was reviewing the original thread about the article I noticed you posted in the thread that you thought the article was honest and balanced. Why are you now skeptical of it?
If you think they are lying look at how they obtained their statistics; Margin of error, group size, methods, etc and that will prove or disprove the validity of those figures.
I have. Otherwise I wouldn't have made any statement, although I do stop short of calling them liars, just to keep things civil. What evidence do you have that their statements hold up to scrutiny?
In fact Dr. Peter Buerhas says it himself in the article you posted "Demand for health care services is expected to climb as more baby boomers retire and health care reform makes medical care accessible to more people. As older nurses start retiring, economists predict a massive nursing shortage will reemerge in the United States.
"We've been really worried about the future workforce because we've got almost 900,000 nurses over the age of 50 who will probably retire this decade, and we'll have to replace them."
Dr Buerhaus rarely strays off the reservation. By that I mean his close associations to the powers that be, as had been called the "nursing lobby" keep him from venturing far astray of what you read in the "hard numbers" provided by the AACN Media Relations Fact Sheet. Unfortunately, they cherry pick results from his various studies and omit those that don't support their self-interested bias. I mentioned his inclusion in Ms Kurtz's article not because he is 100% trustworthy, but to point out that she could've easily written her article without them. Instead she endeavored to get a mix of opinions, a journalistic ethic.
I have looked below the surface, and one of the talking points you will read in articles in small newspapers all over the country is the scenario about all the old nurses who refuse to retire, or went back to work (miraculously they all found jobs waiting for them). There aren't even weak numbers to support that assertion, though. If you know of an actual study to prove that this phenomenon exists, I'd love to see it.
Since the rush into retirement of multitudes of nurses presently "clogging the system" was supposed to start in 2010 and reach a crisis rate by 2020 we should soon start to see hard evidence of it. If it's true.
One thing we can probably agree on is that it's fair to look at an individual's, or an institution's track record on prior predictions to decide if we should trust their current predictions. Those don't hold up well. Perhaps that's an area you might wish to research.
I notice you're residing in California which also happens to be the entirety of the interviewees in the CNNmoney article. Now that is clear evidence of skewed data. California does not constitute the entire US. I think we're all pretty aware California is in a huge financial crisis and when there is less money there is less jobs. Lets look at North Dakota, more money more jobs.
Specializes in Surgical, Emerg, Medical, Community.
I know most of you talking here live in US, but in Southern Ontario here there is no nursing shortage. I came from a pretty big graduating class. I was part of 90 out of 1000 who applied to a nursing program in my home town. Come to graduate, I ended up getting a job but there's no full time jobs. Only part time, no benefits, 13% in lieu of benefits was what I got. I'm full time now, but only because I took a job that not many people wanted (weekend worker, float nurse). Nurses aren't retiring. I have many nurses on my unit who are in their 60's who have no plans on retiring. I also have a nurse who works on our floor who's well into her 70's and she STILL works, and you know what? Many of their husbands have lost their jobs along with that pension they thought they'd be getting.. so... I hear a lot of students who come on to my floor and they say "I'm not working in a nursing home" and I'll say "You'll take a job wherever you can get it, you can't pick and chose where you work, people aren't hiring, nurses aren't retiring". They're not. Here, you have to move.
I notice you're residing in California which also happens to be the entirety of the interviewees in the CNNmoney article. Now that is clear evidence of skewed data. California does not constitute the entire US. I think we're all pretty aware California is in a huge financial crisis and when there is less money there is less jobs. Lets look at North Dakota more money more jobs.[/quote']
I'm so tired of this "there are no jobs in Ca" thing! Yes there are... Nobody really wants to work in LTC in the sticks, but Hi *raises hand* I live in the sticks and there ARE a lot of jobs here for LVNS RNS and BSNS. New grads CAN apply. Yeah I live somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and yeah I might not get a hospital job but every RN and LVN I know that has graduated in the last two years got a job in my area! Seriously. California is a lot bigger than the Bay Area, Sac, and LA county! JEEZ! Rant over!
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I notice you're residing in California which also happens to be the entirety of the interviewees in the CNNmoney article. Now that is clear evidence of skewed data. California does not constitute the entire US. I think we're all pretty aware California is in a huge financial crisis and when there is less money there is less jobs. Lets look at North Dakota, more money more jobs.
A direct quote from the article (bolding added):
A survey by the National Student Nurse's Association showed 36% of newly licensed RNs graduating in 2011 were not working as registered nurses four months after graduation.
In California, the problem looks even worse. About 43% of newly licensed RNs there still did not have jobs within 18 months after graduation, according to a separate 2011 survey conducted by the California Institute for Nursing & Health Care.
I'm really not sure why you are so focussed on denying the evidence all around us regarding the over-supply of nurses and discrediting an article you proclaimed to be balanced and honest less than two months ago. I'll leave it to you to learn how to fairly evaluate the avalanche of information around us and do the legwork on your own. I have no interest in discouraging pre-nursing students from pursuing their career goals. Myself and others here on allnurses who challenge the status-quo from the institutions you so vehemently defend is meant to help, not hurt.
I'm done with this discussion. Best wishes to you as you pursue your path to nursing school.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
What I meant by it is that news media stations, especially CNN, msnbc, etc are not balanced. They write some good articles and informative at that but again they too are humans and therefore have opinions. Numbers on the other hand are hard, true and factual. If you think they are lying look at how they obtained their statistics; Margin of error, group size, methods, etc and that will prove or disprove the validity of those figures.
In fact Dr. Peter Buerhas says it himself in the article you posted "Demand for health care services is expected to climb as more baby boomers retire and health care reform makes medical care accessible to more people. As older nurses start retiring, economists predict a massive nursing shortage will reemerge in the United States.
"We've been really worried about the future workforce because we've got almost 900,000 nurses over the age of 50 who will probably retire this decade, and we'll have to replace them."
Has the Nursing Shortage Disappeared? that time of year again. Graduating nursing students are preparing to take the NCLEX and are looking for their first jobs. This year, many are finding those first jobs in short supply.
Reports are rampant of new graduates being unable to find open positions in their specialty of choice, and even more shockingly, many are finding it tough to find any openings at all.
These new RNs entered school with the promise that nursing is a recession-proof career. They were told the nursing shortage would guarantee them employment whenever and wherever they wanted.
So what happened? Has the nursing shortage--that we've heard about incessantly for years--suddenly gone away?
The short term answer is clearly yes, although in the long term, unfortunately, the shortage will still be there.
The recession has brought a temporary reprieve to the shortage. Nurses who were close to retirement have seen their 401(k) portfolios plummet and their potential retirement income decline. They are postponing retirement a few more years until the economy--and their portfolios--pick up.
No nursing shortage. Check this site. Yes California is one of the hardest hit areas with 47% of new grads unemployed. However there are other areas as hard hit. The average job search post graduation is approx 18 months.
Check out...first year after licenesure and you will see it's not just California where it is hard to find a position....https://allnurses.com/nursing-first-job/
Curious about opinions on the "shortage" vs. need when 2014 Patient Affordable Care Act comes into play. I'm reading that there will be a much, much greater need in the already moderately short NP area. For those who have been in the profession for some time and seen the ebbs and flows (I'm still a pre-nursing student), what's your opinion on how this will affect LVN/ADN/BSN nurses?
I appreciate your reply esme. Again I do not consider personal stories (allnurses postings) as hard facts. One of the first things I learned as I'm sure most do in (AP) statistics class is obtain your data using a reliable method as to have the smallest margin of error. Also learned was the fact that you can't get your information off what people put out there because the amount of people who communicate when things are going well is far lower than when things aren't going well as in this situation.
Like I said yes our economy was down and thus like any job is also effected. With that bring said the shortage is prevalent in places people aren't wanting to move and in places such as LTC. They are dying for nurses at many LTC's so yes there is a shortage but people aren't so willing to take those jobs. As stated also by the aforementioned poster things are going to change. The need is only going to grow.
I'm so tired of this "there are no jobs in Ca" thing! Yes there are... Nobody really wants to work in LTC in the sticks, but Hi *raises hand* I live in the sticks and there ARE a lot of jobs here for LVNS RNS and BSNS. New grads CAN apply. Yeah I live somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and yeah I might not get a hospital job but every RN and LVN I know that has graduated in the last two years got a job in my area! Seriously. California is a lot bigger than the Bay Area, Sac, and LA county! JEEZ! Rant over!
nursel56
7,122 Posts
I disagree with that statement. Numbers are malleable and can be manipulated just like an editorial slant in a news story. Lucky for us now we have access to vastly more sources than in the past, and we must independently evaluate and decide which ones we find the most trustworthy. The financial reporting side of CNN is pretty middle-of-the-road in my opinion. Yours may differ, but generally speaking a Press Release from a self-interested trade group is not balanced. I wouldn't expect a balanced Press Release about milk to come from the National Dairy Council, either.
I also find your objections confusing because as I was reviewing the original thread about the article I noticed you posted in the thread that you thought the article was honest and balanced. Why are you now skeptical of it?
I have. Otherwise I wouldn't have made any statement, although I do stop short of calling them liars, just to keep things civil. What evidence do you have that their statements hold up to scrutiny?
Dr Buerhaus rarely strays off the reservation. By that I mean his close associations to the powers that be, as had been called the "nursing lobby" keep him from venturing far astray of what you read in the "hard numbers" provided by the AACN Media Relations Fact Sheet. Unfortunately, they cherry pick results from his various studies and omit those that don't support their self-interested bias. I mentioned his inclusion in Ms Kurtz's article not because he is 100% trustworthy, but to point out that she could've easily written her article without them. Instead she endeavored to get a mix of opinions, a journalistic ethic.
I have looked below the surface, and one of the talking points you will read in articles in small newspapers all over the country is the scenario about all the old nurses who refuse to retire, or went back to work (miraculously they all found jobs waiting for them). There aren't even weak numbers to support that assertion, though. If you know of an actual study to prove that this phenomenon exists, I'd love to see it.
Since the rush into retirement of multitudes of nurses presently "clogging the system" was supposed to start in 2010 and reach a crisis rate by 2020 we should soon start to see hard evidence of it. If it's true.
One thing we can probably agree on is that it's fair to look at an individual's, or an institution's track record on prior predictions to decide if we should trust their current predictions. Those don't hold up well. Perhaps that's an area you might wish to research.