Where do you go when you don't trust official data sources?

Nurses COVID

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Been engaged in alot of discussion under the COVID heading. Got me thinking. I find myself not trusting published data. There's so much politicization of everything. The government agencies are simply not independent and they are the source of most information. They want compliance. Period. Why wouldn't they change the data to fit? They certainly could and they have before. They constantly put out demands and conflicting information over and over again. Masks are BS. They don't protect anything. they stop a cough. GREAT! But they push masks like they are vital to life. People are wearing their masks while jogging in the woods. seriously? What the foxtrot!!? 

I hear all colors of reports about anecdotal stories of people being hurt by the vaccines. Those stories don't even exist as far as official sources are concerned. Do I risk the vaccine hurting me or COVID hurting me? Neither is a good option. COVID is a crap shoot. but taking the vaccine is a conscious choice. People come out of COVID without a problem. people take the vaccine without a problem. Both sides are valid in my mind. but now they are forcing the vaccine by law. This isn't a clear situation. It's very muddy. vaccinated still get infected but the narrative is the vaccine is totally safe, effective, and mandatory and will save the world. How do we know the vaccine isn't driving mutation? If I can't trust the source, how the hell can I make an informed decision? The drug companies have a massive profit motive to avoid any bad press. did they really disclose all their data?

Every single positive case is counted as a case. Are vaccine injuries treated the same? How many people harmed by the vaccine are taken into account? There's no way to know. Positive case: Always assume regardless of symptoms. Vaccine injury claim: PROVE IT WITH AN AUTOPSY!! IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN THE VACCINE!! ITS PROBABLY SOMETHING ELSE!! HERE'S A REFERRAL NOW GET OUT OF MY OFFICE!! (Yes I'm being hyperbolic). Its a double standard and there's no way we can get a clear picture with a double standard like that. This whole thing is a mess. 

Does anyone else feel like they have found an unbiased source of information that someone who doesn't trust CDC, FDA, government bodies can turn to to make an informed decision? I'm tired of all the fighting and politicization. I just want unbiased information. If you are like me, what did you do to get a clear picture of this mess and come to a conclusion about vax vs avoid? I'm seriously frustrated. I don't want to add to the problem. But I also don't want to get vaccination injury which can be just as bad as anything I can get from (yes liberals, vaccine injury happens. deal with it). Sigh....tired. I hope this makes sense. Does anyone else feel like this? I hope I'm not the only one. 

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

What I don't get is that the gamble on natural immunity after infection has a much much higher cost in terms of human suffering, death, stress on the health system and economy.  We are currently living the reality that lots and lots more people are going to suffer and die if our population remains unvaccinated to this degree. This is a crisis, a national public health emergency that will not get better until enough people are vaccinated to bring hospitalizations down to a manageable level across the country. 

What don't you get about that?

Why are you so certain vaccination is literally the only factor here? My POINT was, it's a good thing that natural immunity is protective. Yet you dismiss that. You are blind to everything else but vaccine. That's not a good mind set to have. 

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
24 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

I belong to & follow the emergency nurse’s association & the society of critical care medicine forums. These are members only, you log in with your real name so no hiding behind an anonymous handle.

And guess how many discussions exist that question the efficacy of the vaccine and/or whether or not to get vaccinated? Yep, none. There is a lot of hard science tho……

Thanks for the lead. I'll check it out. AN is all I'm subscribed to at the moment. 

Update: I rumaged through some SDN. Didn't see allot on covid but I did see this: "I got a bad review comment from a nurse on surgery rotation because she told me I should be squirting water on skin as I removed some duoderm. She was bent because I didn't listen to her (spoiler: The duoderm came off fine). As an aside: Fast forward to intern year. If the ICU nurses told me to run around the room and honk like a goose before I took off the duoderm, I would do it. LOL" HAhahaha! ?????. Sometimes I miss ICU.....

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
On 8/28/2021 at 1:25 PM, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Why are you so certain vaccination is literally the only factor here? My POINT was, it's a good thing that natural immunity is protective. Yet you dismiss that. You are blind to everything else but vaccine. That's not a good mind set to have. 

Why are you ignoring the risk and cost associated with seeking immunity through infection rather than vaccination? That's a huge and important factor that you brush past and ignore as if death and suffering and economic upheaval from widespread illness aren't worth tconsidering.  Achieving herd immunity through infection is not a responsible goal for any government charged with promoting the health and general welfare of the population. 

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Why are you ignoring the risk and cost associated with seeking immunity through infection rather than vaccination? That's a huge and important factor that you brush past and ignore as if death and suffering and economic upheaval from widespread illness aren't work considering.  Achieving herd immunity through infection is not a responsible goal for any government charged with promoting the health and general welfare of the population. 

Stop putting words in my mouth dude. Do you have reading comprehension issues? I'm not saying it's a strategy for the unvaccinated/uninfected. God! How many infections in the us? About 40 million last I looked. All those people already have some protection from reinfection. Is that a bad thing in your opinion? 

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Is anyone able to quantify immunity through infection?

Is it equal to immunization?

I don't know the sources where to look.

But knowing that most common colds are corona viruses themselves, and knowing we are not immune to them for long (months at best I have read) why gamble? I would rather take my chances with the shot.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Stop putting words in my mouth dude. Do you have reading comprehension issues? I'm not saying it's a strategy for the unvaccinated/uninfected. God! How many infections in the us? About 40 million last I looked. All those people already have some protection from reinfection. Is that a bad thing in your opinion? 

Seriously? I guess you should stop telling me what I believe then, eh? Otherwise you appear inconsistent.  It is a strategy, the unvaccinated just haven't considered their choices closely enough to realize it.  If the strategy was to achieve vaccine mediated immunity they would vaccinate rather than make excuses to remain unvaccinated.  The only way unvaccinated people develop immunity is to gamble with illness and death.  Can you acknowledge that reality?

It's good to have immunity to the disease.  It's bad to overwhelm the health system and tank the economy because you want to avoid vaccination and gamble with infection. Right now health systems across the country are overwhelmed and nearing collapse because of the number of terribly sick people who are unvaccinated.  Hospitals aren't struggling because they are filled with people experiencing untoward effects from vaccines or masks. They are struggling because of widespread illness. Preventable illness.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 minutes ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

Is anyone able to quantify immunity through infection?

Is it equal to immunization?

I don't know the sources where to look.

But knowing that most common colds are corona viruses themselves, and knowing we are not immune to them for long (months at best I have read) why gamble? I would rather take my chances with the shot.

Colds are commonly rhinoviruses but most covid infections before this one were associated with URI similar to the common cold.  There isn't any data that proves that we develop long term immunity after illness, because it wasn't really necessary to track that in a disease that wasn't terribly dangerous on a large scale.  Historically , it's been thought that the sloppy replication of the virus leading to frequent changes in the coronavirus proteins hampered our ability to develop long term immunity.  

The unvaccinated who have recovered from infection will just have to gamble that their immunity will be durable, if they plan to remain unvaccinated. 

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I read that many common colds are actually corona viruses. Chest colds, I mean. Am I wrong?

Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
8 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Seriously? I guess you should stop telling me what I believe then, eh? Otherwise you appear inconsistent.  It is a strategy, the unvaccinated just haven't considered their choices closely enough to realize it.  If the strategy was to achieve vaccine mediated immunity they would vaccinate rather than make excuses to remain unvaccinated.  The only way unvaccinated people develop immunity is to gamble with illness and death.  Can you acknowledge that reality?

It's good to have immunity to the disease.  It's bad to overwhelm the health system and tank the economy because you want to avoid vaccination and gamble with infection. Right now health systems across the country are overwhelmed and nearing collapse because of the number of terribly sick people who are unvaccinated.  Hospitals aren't struggling because they are filled with people experiencing untoward effects from vaccines or masks. They are struggling because of widespread illness. Preventable illness.

Look you are the one picking fights here. I don't care to argue your contrived, accusatory arguments. Make better points or there's nothing to talk about. You are desperate to hate people that don't want this new vaccination tech. Fine. Hate us all you want. I don't care.

The government is the one tanking the economy. The unvaccinated don't choose to spend trillions of newly printed dollars on stimulus packages while locking down small businesses. The government does. If you have a problem with the economy you should blame the Biden administration and Democrats. They are in power now. 

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 minutes ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

I read that many common colds are actually corona viruses. Chest colds, I mean. Am I wrong?

Many covid illnesses are comparable to the common cold. 

42 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Heres an example of what I've been hearing about:https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/woman-suffers-life-altering-injuries-after-covid-vaccine-teams-up-with-utah-senator-to-demand-answers/

We love to focus on population data. It has its place. But if people like this woman are numerous and ignored in that data, how can we say the risk is as low as they say? Now they say there's no link to neuro damage. People say "lay person no know." That's like us deciding a person's pain complaint is invalid. Pain is supposed to be what the pt says it is right? Do we know vaccine injuries numbers are inclusive and accurate? What criteria is it decided that a person complaining of sudden, new, and severe neurologic symptoms after vaccination excluded from the count?

 

Certainly this patient has had a terrible experience.

We sometimes see similar things (not vaccine related) in the emergency department where it is neither possible nor appropriate to undertake extensive work-ups. Emergencies are ruled out and the patient's safety is evaluated. I would not say this situation is unheard of. The patients are referred back to their primary care provider or given a referral if they don't have one, so that further investigations can be undertaken.

It is not an easy thing.

I cannot comment further except to say that my nursing experiences would not lead me, personally, to be concerned about the vaccine based on this woman's very unfortunate experience or those who have had similar experiences.

Edit: I want to make clear that I also do not think she is lying about what she experienced.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
On 8/28/2021 at 6:03 PM, JKL33 said:

Certainly this patient has had a terrible experience.

We sometimes see similar things (not vaccine related) in the emergency department where it is neither possible nor appropriate to undertake extensive work-ups. Emergencies are ruled out and the patient's safety is evaluated. I would not say this situation is unheard of. The patients are referred back to their primary care provider or given a referral if they don't have one, so that further investigations can be undertaken.

It is not an easy thing.

I cannot comment further except to say that my nursing experiences would not lead me, personally, to be concerned about the vaccine based on this woman's very unfortunate experience or those who have had similar experiences.

Same.

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