Those of you that are union members, where are you?
I keep seeing posts of nurses having difficulties with management and, inevitably, one of the first suggestions is "take it to the union"
I cant be the only person shaking my head and saying "yeah, WHAT UNION?"
It seems some nurses think they are everywhere, so I'm curious as to how common they really are (and how much they really help).
So - union members
1 - is it hospital based, for your workplace only, or does it represent all nurses in the state?
2 - are all nursing personnel represented by the same union or are does it only represent RN/LPN or RN only?
3 - what does your union do for you (if anything)?
4 - what do you wish your union would do for you that it does not (if anything)?
5 - is there anything else about the setup that you would change to make it more effective and a better advocacy for nurses?
6 - is there any type of coverage for those who are not full-time/part-time employees (i.e. perdiem/agency/travelers)? If not, how are they treated differently?
Just FYI, in regards to "mafia don types" in unions ...
Not all unions are like that. In California, CNA is run by nurses ... SEIU ... which Steph mentioned (with the gold chains, etc.) ... doesn't try to organize nurses anymore.
They struck a deal with CNA not to compete in that area anymore, at least in California. SEIU only represents other health care workers, at least in this state.
Just FYI, in regards to "mafia don types" in unions ...
Not all unions are like that. In California, CNA is run by nurses ... SEIU ... which Steph mentioned (with the gold chains, etc.) ... doesn't try to organize nurses anymore.
They struck a deal with CNA not to compete in that area anymore, at least in California. SEIU only represents other health care workers, at least in this state.
hmmm - interesting development, last time I had looked into CA, they were still represented by both. It makes sense though. CNA has done so much for their nurses, why go with the mafia dons?
I agree! I would love to be able to join a union more than anything!
I am so envious of you Cali RNs in the CNA!
I'd love to see you out here Christina. It would be so interesting to hear your impressions. Although housing prices have become so outrageous, that the bedpan might still only be half empty.
Or, the bedpan might be half full ... but the house might be empty.
hmmm - interesting development, last time I had looked into CA, they were still represented by both. It makes sense though. CNA has done so much for their nurses, why go with the mafia dons?
Now, I'm sure not all SEIU reps make the mistake of coming to a rural area dressed inappropriately. I don't want to paint them all with the same brush . . . . . .
I'll have to check with some of my friends who do work for hospitals with union representation . . . I hadn't heard about the agreement between CNA and SEIU.
I'm a member of the Royal College of Nursing. A UK union, it is a professional body, educational body, and union. In some ways similar to the ANA in political terms, but with 360,000 members we have more than half of all practicing UK RN's in membership. Most of the staff are RN's as are most of the union activists. We also own one of the two national weekly nursing magazines, the "Nursing Standard" Here's a snippet from the RCN website, it has a link to the "Standard" website too.
To deliver our mission we aim to:
Represent
the interests of nurses and nursing and be their voice locally, nationally and internationally.
Influence
and lobby governments and others to develop and implement policy that improves the quality of patient care, and builds on the importance of nurses, health care assistants and nursing students to health outcomes.
Support and protect
the value of nurses and nursing staff in all their diversity
their terms and conditions of employment in all employment sectors
the interests of nurses professionally.
Develop
and educate nurses professionally and academically, building our resource of professional expertise and leadership
the science and art of nursing and its professional practice.
Build
a sustainable, member led, organisation with the capacity to deliver our mission effectively, efficiently and in accordance with our values
the systems, attitudes and resources to offer the best possible support and development to our staff.
Just FYI, in regards to "mafia don types" in unions ...
Not all unions are like that. In California, CNA is run by nurses ... SEIU ... which Steph mentioned (with the gold chains, etc.) ... doesn't try to organize nurses anymore.
They struck a deal with CNA not to compete in that area anymore, at least in California. SEIU only represents other health care workers, at least in this state.
SEIU just won a unon vote at Deaconess Hospital here in Spokane, Washington.
They also unionize many hospitals over in Seattle, and I have been told that they are the dominant union here in Washington State. That is good because the state nurses' association is, as we say in NY, about as usefull as tits on a bull, if not worse. I personally consider SEIU to be a a far superior union, in terms of contract language, benefits negotiated, workplace support, communicating issues with the members, etc. This is non existant here in Spokane with the state nursing association. The members are left in the dark, and would be far better off without a union to deal with worplace issues.
One bad aspect that I don't agree when you are unionized, is that, if you have a beef with the hospital, manager, administration, etc., you are required by law to go through ALL of the grievances (usually 4), to be able to take the problem to an attorney. IF you can even get a lawyer to talk to you about a matter, and were to bring the matter to court, you would automatically lose on the basis of not going through the entire grievance process, and your case would be dismissed. In that case you are better off without a union, to be able to deal with an issue with an attorney of your choice. Lawyers are expensive, but many times they will take a case on contingency, and if you win, the hospital would have to pay your legal fees. BUT, at least with an attorney, you stand a much better chance of winning a settlement to your satisfaction. Take it from me, I went through countless grievances with th hospital where I worked, and NOTHING was ever settled to my satisfaction. I learned alot by taking an Employment Law class at the community college where I was taking the Legal Nurse Certification program, & I would encourage EVERYONE who can hook up with a paraegal program, to take as many classes as you can. They are like a "Peoples' Law School", and their is a wealth of legal information to be learned. Many community colleges do offer a "Peoples's Law School".
I hope that has answered some quesitions. Do I believe in nursing unions? the answer is "YES". However, the wrong one is as bad as not having one at all, if not worse due to not being able to acccess the legal system when they are ineffective. There is case law in Washington State where under certain circumstances and criteria met, an employee, or employees, after a specified period of time, go before a judge and have them certifiy that pusuing a grievance with the union is futile, (I believe tha time limit was 4 months), and the employees were able to hire a private attorney to pursue their case against their employer, and the union had to pay the entire cost ofthe legal fees. Another benefit to doing Legal Nurse Consulting, and enrolling in a legal nurse program, is that I know how to do legal research, and was able to find alot of case law concerning employer-employee relations. I wish I had know what I know. I would have had alot of ammunitition to use when I ran into problems with the hospital.
I am a reservist and after I came back from Desert Storm I found out that they had not, and would not, give me seniority credit for the time that I was gone. If I knew then what I know now, I would have merely quoted them the Federal Law that REQUIRES them to allow you time off for reserve time, without penalty, or taking vacation or paid time off. That is ILLEGAL FOR AN EMPLOYER TO MAKE YOU TAKE YOUR OWN VACATION TIME OR PAID TIME OFF FOR RESERVE DUTIES, INCLUDING SCHOOL TOURS, OR CLASSES, ETC. THEY WILL QUOTE YOU THAT IT HAS TO BE REQUIRED TRAINING, ETC. BUT ALL TRAINING CAN BE CONSIDERED REQUIRED TRAINING. I found out in my case that I could have reported them to the district attorney and the EEOC for what they did. I'm sorry now that I didn't. I was able to convince a local attorney to help me, and as soon as he called the hospital administration, they backed down immediately realizing the legal hot water they were in. It pays to stick to your guns!
The moral of the story is, unions are only as good as the members make them be. In our case, here in Spokane the nurses think that they are tough stuff because they are unioized with the state nurses association.It is only a facade. They really do not know what good unions do for their members. That is why the nurses association gets away with such poor, weak and shoddy represention. I hope that SEIU will be BADA$$ES HERE blow the wishy washy nurse image away, with an incredible contract.
I am from NY and come from a post office union family. In March of 1970, when I was 15, my Dad, and Uncle, walked out on strike with the post office. At the time, the post office was the step child of the federal workers, with the lowest pay and worst benefits, They got fed up enough, that and at that time, THE ENTIRE POST OFFICE, IN ALL 50 STATES, WENT OUT ON STRIKE!!! THE POST OFFICE CAVED IN AFTER ONLY 3 DAYS. THE POSTAL STRIKE BROUGHT THIS COUNTRY TO ITS KNEES IN 3 DAYS!!! AND THE WORKERS GOT EVERYTHING THAT THEY DEMANDED!!! Just imagination what a nationwide nurses' strike would do.
I keep hoping and waiting for this to happen in nursing. I keep thinking, OK, this has to be the straw that broke the camels back, and the nurses in this country will finally say, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH", and take back our profession. I have been disappointed every time. How bad does it have to get for nurses to take the stand that the post office did 30 years ago? I thought that we reached that point years ago with "Care re- design", and it still hasn't happened anyplace. NY and California are the closest that we have gotten.
Oh well, that is just my NEW YORK $0.02 CENTS (and a subway token), opinion.
Linda Gusch, RN, BSN, CCRN, LNC
Medical Legal Consulting, pRN
Spokane, Washington
(former diploma grad from Brooklyn, New York)
Anyway, nurses wouldn't be the sacrificial lambs that they usually end up being if they educated themselves employment issues. Kaplan College Legal Nurse Program offers a paralegal and legal nurse program. I believe that employment law is a class choice that is offered
I'd love to see you out here Christina. It would be so interesting to hear your impressions. Although housing prices have become so outrageous, that the bedpan might still only be half empty.
Or, the bedpan might be half full ... but the house might be empty.
:chuckle
Lol, lizz. I'd love to be able to work in Cali sometime. I'd love to be able to march w/ the CNA. What a thrill that would be!
As I always say, it's not whether the bedpan is half full or have empty, it's what's in the bedpan that counts, lol.
California is great but we can do it in the South too!
I work at a union hospital in Miami. We are a Top 25 hospital. We have good wages and benefits, and a pension plan.
When a person you work is lazy or unsafe practioner (union or non-union) nothing should stop us from talking to that person but it's managements job (union or non-union) to deal with these folks. They have the tools -- they HIRED them!
With a union the unfairly accused are entitled to due process, but not protection if they are incompetent or lazy.
My union is SEIU 1991.
I am curious, I have read a lot of things about the union and I want to know how long nurses had to wait to get a raise during negogations? Also do you continue with flexibilityof your schedule. For instance, where I work you can request your days to work, if something comes up and you need to switch a day you have the flexibilty to switch with another nurse. Another question that I have is: If you have a nurse that you have safety issues with what happens? Example I worked with a nurse that was unsafe, she had a patient on blood sugars every hour and would administer 10 units of regular insulin every hour to cover a blood sugar while the patient was NPO. Needless to say the patient went into an unresponsive hypoglycemic episode. The nurse was counseled and had to verify insulin administration with a specificed nurse prior to giving. She choose not to do this and repeated basically the same action that had negative outcomes on the patient. She was terminated for unsafe practice. Can this happen in an union? I would really like to know because we are considering a union.
news flash.........................important update. the washington board of the nlrb has overturned the december 2002 vote at cedars-sinai medical center. those of us who believe in speaking for ourselves are very pleased. we will have a second vote.
we respect the wishes of the pro union nurses to effect change and hope for the chance to do it with them together in a union free hospital.
As I've said before, unions care about two things - and only two things; money and control. They can care less about nurses or nursing - or for that matter, anyone else.
As I've said before, unions care about two things - and only two things; money and control. They can care less about nurses or nursing - or for that matter, anyone else.
If this is true, why did the California Nurses Association pass the first nurse-patient ratio law in this country? Would you rather juggle up to a dozen or more patients with no limits or, only six, which is what the ratio law requires. Thanks to CNA, the patient ratio goes down to five next year.
There are approximately 280,000 licensed nurses in this state, CNA only represents 55,000 of them. ALL nurses in this state benefit from that law, NOT just CNA members. And, many more nurses are moving here from out-of-state because of the law that CNA passed. The BORN has been flooded with applications.
CNA also financed, defended and won the court challenge filed by the hospital industry against the law. Obviously non-union nurses benefit from that as well.
Do you somehow believe that the ratio law is a bad thing? If so, that would be the first time I've heard anyone say that on this board.
I agree that there are bad unions. But not all unions are the same.
Sheri257
3,905 Posts
Just FYI, in regards to "mafia don types" in unions ...
Not all unions are like that. In California, CNA is run by nurses ... SEIU ... which Steph mentioned (with the gold chains, etc.) ... doesn't try to organize nurses anymore.
They struck a deal with CNA not to compete in that area anymore, at least in California. SEIU only represents other health care workers, at least in this state.