WyomingRN

See the thread entitle is "incorporation - liability - confusion" The link is https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78807

I agree with this; but would also send copies to the nursing board, State association, representatives and the Governor. While I would not expect them to do anything, they would get first hand information as to why so many nurses leave the profession and have a bad attitude. They may choose to do nothing, but they can not claim ignorance. So very true. There is NO loyalty on their part; why should there be any on your part?

I guess my thoughts are a little different. Before you "run", consult an attorney. I think these situation are great for suits on grounds of misrepresentation and breach of contract; especially if other in the same facility have the same experiences. If nurses started filing such suits, facilities would have to start thinking before promising the moon just to get you in the door. Generally, the first consultation with an attorney is free. I try to set up an appointment with two or three different attorneys to get more than one possible point of view. You never know - they may agree to let you go and let you keep the bonus just to prevent a suit. Until nurses quit running and start standing up in these situations, the practice will continue.

I work independent. There are many on this board that have good ideas in this area. One of the best things you can do is take the time to go through all the posts here in the Entrepreneurs section.

A lawyers would have no idea if a nurse has insurance or not until AFTER a suit has been filed. Only then does the discovery process begin and only then can someone be forced to disclosed such information. I have never seen any evidence that having insurance makes a nurse more of a target for a suit. There was just a thread on this a few weeks ago. Read every post carefully.

I don't specifically know Arkansas State law so my suggestion is to talk to a local attorney. 30 minutes with an attorney could say you a lot down the road and get you off on the right foot.

It depends on what kind of service your are going to provide. If you are going to cook their meals, do their laundry, make their beds, or mow their lawns, then no you do not have to be a licensed nurse. By the way, one of the businesses being started in various locations, is to do peoples shopping. Many can't get around as they use to and don't like going to the store. This service can also be provided to those who have busy schedules and shopping is more of a chore than they would like.

My company insurance is with NSO. The company policy covers me and any nurses I have to hire throughout the year. This year my cost is approximately $300. Each year it is evaluated to see have many employees I have had. That is the main basis as to what the yearly cost is. It also covers them even though they are part time. I am happy with the policy as so far, I have not seen anything else anywhere to match the coverage or price. The policy is in the company name and has the same coverage as my personal policy had- 1million/6 million. NSO has a separate division for company/corporate policies. The number I have on my policy folder is 888-288-3534.

This last week I met with our attorney for the purpose of getting one question answered. How much liability protection does incorporating provide to a PC? A PC is a professional service company such as an accountant, lawyer or chiropractor. One or more who provides a professional service that requires a State license. In other words, as an LLC, would there be any further protection from liability if I were to switch to a C or S corporation? His answer was simply - NO! Then he explained. As an attorney, if he were to file suit against a chiropractor that was incorporated, his suit would name both the corporation and the individual who provided the service as separate parties. His claim against the corporation would be for not providing properly trained personal and/or for not providing adequate personal as the case may dictate. The person who actually provided the service would also be named and the cause of action against them would be for malpractice. In the end, any party that was found to be liable would be responsible for their own judgments. So if the individual named was found liable, the corporation was not be responsible for the amount of judgment any more than the individual would be responsible for any judgment against the corporation. He pointed out that I should note that most attorneys are LLC and not corporations. There are exception; mostly with big law firms. But, as he pointed out, they did not incorporate for liability reasons, but rather, because it is easier to provide much greater benefits to employees as a corporation compared to an LLC. So before you incorporate, remember that you can still be held personally liable even if you are incorporated. This is because providing nursing services is considered as providing professional service just as an attorney. If in doubt, copy and print this post and take it to an attorney to see how your State laws apply to you. I'm betting that most States are pretty much the same. When asking questions about incorporation, I believe that too many nurses have been lead a stray by asking general question about incorporation and liability. To get the correct answer and response, you must mention that you are talking about a "professional service company".

Blackcat Thought you might be interested in this ad that was in the Casper Star Tribune. Medical LPN READY FOR A CHANGE OF PACE? Correctional Medical Services, provider of health services for the health services for the Wyoming Department of Corrections has excellent opportunities at the Wyoming Womens Correctional Center in Lusk. Ambulatory Care Low Acuity No Bed Care No Heavy Lifting CMS offers FREE LODGING, competitive rates, great differentials and comprehensive benefits including generous paid time off. It was in the Sunday paper under medical. Yes Lusk does have a Mexican restaurant, and know that they have a swimming pool that is open in the summer, don't know about the winter. Know that one of the motels does have an indoor swimming pool though. Contact me if you need more information.

This case was more than a decade ago. Things have changed since then. Many procedures have changed. My point was not to reexamine or try to explain the entire case. Just to show that, while they may not be common, I know someone who sat on a jury where nurses were named as a party and that it seemed irrelevant to the plaintiff's attorney as to whether they had insurance or not. If you want a detail by detail point, you would have to look the case up and read the transcripts. He says that it wasn't until after the trial that they found out about the prior settlement. A couple jurys over heard the Plaintiff's attorney tell his client - "good thing we settled with the hospital" if he remembers correctly. He and a couple other jurys talked to a couple of the nurses after the trial. They were so elated because they were really worried about loosing their houses and everything they own because they had no malpractice insurance; not to mention the possibility of not being able to practice nursing. One - a veteran nurse - said that the thought of having malpractice insurance "never crossed my mind prior to this suit." My husband flat told them that they should have sued the hospital and the unit supervisor. He says the nurses responded that "they did - but they settled out a court before trial started." With the facility settling prior to trial, that settled that part of the lawsuit; thus, those parties did not have to appear at trail. The plaintiff still went after the others. He doesn't remember exactly how, but the way things were being run, he remember that the unit supervisor had interfered or barred the nurses from verbally calling the Dr. They had charted, but for some reason the information that things were going down hill never got to the Dr. He says that they (the jury) felt that the nurses did their job and were just following orders. They felt that the orders were wrong, but the jury felt that it was wrong to blame someone for following orders. It was a fairly complicated case with the Dr and nurses on one side. I only tried to summarize his experience as briefly as possible to illustrate the point that having no insurance is not necessarily protection from suit - especially these days. It was after trial that they found out about the nurses having no insurance - and they volunteered that info during a conversation. It never came up at trial. After trial they found out about the settlement with the hospital. It was never mentioned at trial. He says the jury kept wondering why the hospital was not sued also. Then they found out - after trail. This was also long before we got together. At the time, he know nothing of how nurses were treated, what they were paid. He - like the general public never really gave it any thought. Now that we are together and he sees what it is really like to be a nurse, he's really glad that they saw through the plaintff BS. His decision had nothing to do with what he now knows and understand about the nursing profession and the health care industry.

Something to think about. My hubby has sat on a jury during a malpractice case. He said everyone was going after the Dr. and four nurses. Not one of the nurses had malpractice insurance. The jury listened to the evidence and eventually found in favor of the nurses. The jury unanimously determined that it was the facility that should be held liable, not the Dr. or the nurses. After the trial, they found out that the plaintiff and the facility settled out of court for several hundred thousand $$$. He said the case wasn't even close and that the whole jury agreed that it should have never gone to trial. The plaintiff was just trying to get every dime from everybody. Fortunately the jury saw through what was happening. But several thousand of $$ was spent on legal fee to clear their names. What if the jury had gone the other way? The plaintiff played the sympathy card to the hilt. He lost his leg; he is wheel chair bound for life; he'll never be able to work again. You know the speal. NOT having insurance did NOT protect these nurses from being involved in a lawsuit. Where would the nurses have been had the jury bought into the sympathy plea? Nurses seldom get sued, but for that one in a million chance, I still want protection in this sue happy culture we live in.

Thanks lovinghands on the kudos of the web site. You are right that some information is listed, but as long as I don't release private identifying information publicly, I am told that I am safe. My hope is that the BON acts quicker than most government offices so that I may not be put into the position of having to give any reference. Since I have never had to turn in a error report to the BON before, I don't know how quickly the act on these matters.

A nurse in New Mexico sent us a business plan that she had done for a college project. She shared it with us for the purpose of putting it on the web site so that others could see how a business plan was done. Along with the plan she had sent us the grades for the project and they were impressive to say the least. The plan was about setting up a business which would require a dialysis machine. This is where I see the need for the most financial assistance. Getting equipment for such a specialized field. Nursing is a service industry. With only the most basic equipment (such as a stethoscope or gate belts), most of the time all a nurse has to do is provide the time. Keeping the household bills paid while the $$ are spent on initial advertising/marketing, business set up costs, business insurance cost, while waiting for the first couple accounts receivable to be received is a challenge for many and the second greatest area of need financially. Small short term loans at a reasonable rate would go a long way in assisting many nurses. I believe that it would also turn into a boom business for someone that could provide this service. I don't think it should necessarily be limited to just nurses. I have a Massage Therapists that I think would go independent if she only such assistance. I do think that limiting it and specializing to serve such individuals would be a good idea. I will reserve my other comments for PM's for now. Thanks for starting this post. The article you posted was a great example

I agree with nightngale in that for a nurse to become self employed, it does not take a huge amount of $$. It does take fore thought and a willingness to take that step. I think the problem with most nurses we have talked to is that they are, like the general public, so heavily in debt, that they can't spare a dime toward a business adventure - even if they realize that they would double the monthly/yearly income. Most nurses we talk to also have more of a problem with things like how to market and what kind of business entity to set up. The biggest fear expressed is the dealing with taxes and government paperwork. Another problem that always arises is that of so called benefits. Many want to take the step, but don't want to give up the benefits - especially insurance. They do not realize that they would make more than enough to obtain the coverage they want/need with the additional $$ they would bring in. It make take a few months, but it seems that that is not a sacrifice many are willing to make. As to nightngale observation regarding the borrowing to cover payroll, this business probably isn't doing things they way it is supposed to be done. Many contractors get into that situation - not just nurses and nurse agencies; construction contractors are notorious for doing it. Generally it is do to a money handling problem. One thing that we stress is to do things right. Avoiding problems is easier than solving them. As to your question posed regarding funds, I would rather deal with my idea through pm's for now (between you and our dear moderator). I don't know how many of our posts you have read in the Entrepreneur thread, so I will summarize for you. I went independent last year. Total start-up cost was less that 2000. That included everything from initial marketing to State filing fees to yellow page advertising. To date, only the first month's receivable were less than 2000. Short term, we are presently working on getting two more contracts with facilities. Long term, we already have the next two facilities we will go after defined. We had four employees at one time and are down to two at present. In addition to the business, we spend a great deal of our time assisting others who are interested in becoming independent. We have heard from nurses from all across the country. On our web page we have a section about "Going Independent" where we have tried to put forth a great deal of information that we think would assist others. I sure wouldn't mind some input from your perspective if you wouldn't mind. There are a lot of people and groups out there that are selling information and even charging fees to consult with them. We are of the belief that the more we [free]ly assist each other and cooperate, the easier it will be for all and the quicker change will come in the nursing field from the autonomous position.