What do you think???

[galaxy781]

Hi all,

I came across a situation the other day and was wondering if anyone else might have an opinion on this subject.

I am in nusing school and one of my classmates is from Korea. Now being a minority myself (im Japaneese) I am not trying to sound predjudiced...but she is a transfer student from Korea and has been in the US for a bit (that is what she told the class). Her english is not very good and she has a very hard time understanding the instructor, ie. she said "I not speak english well can you go slow or repeat things?" i say that as a direct qoute. I was wondering do any of you kind of have a problem with her going into nursing? I mean its great what she is doing but if she cant communicate efficiently with her patients do you think that compromises her patients well being, ie do you think she could misunderstand or not understand and make a mistake?

what do you guys think, i was a little worried, i thought to myself if she cant even understand our teacher that well then will she be able to understand and fully comprehend what the patients are saying?

[galaxy781]

My point of view is from a somewhat different perspective. The language skills are obviously a hendrance when it comes to lecture material and I can imagine the difficulty she and the class have with communicating. However, what happens when she is independently practicing as a nurse. I work in a area with lot of nurses from India, Nigeria, and occasionally China. Most of the time I understand the English of most foreign-born nurses fairly well. I take the time to listen carefully and attentively. This is not an isssue for me, but patient families are not nearly as patient and become frustrated easily. In all my years, I have only worked with one nurse who had such a difficult time communicating that I would literally not explain certain things to her because I knew it would take to long. I would literally just do it myself. On some level, I can imagine that patients are doing the same thing just hoping they can get their issues resolved when the next shift arrives. I think in time her english will improve.

HI all,

Thanks for all your replies, I went to class again today and took some of the advice offered, I tried to strike up a conversation with her and we talked for a bit...turns out she has been the US for 2 years now and she wants to find a job here after she graduates...Her english wasnt the best (she had an electronic dictonary out that she used while we conversated) but we communicated....She says she is having a hard time with the language but is trying to get some tutoring. Hopefully her english does get better as at the moment I dont think shed be able to get along but with time hopefully. The only thing is we are starting clinicals in July...maybe thats enough time...?

So let me try this question...have any of you ever worked with a nurse where the language barrier was an issue? for example maybe she misunderstood and gave a wrong dosage or something due to her lack of understanding the english language?

This is such a tricky subject...I think if the situation were reversed and I was in a foreign county trying to be a nurse, I would find it to be very difficult....I would worry all the time that I wasnt understanding everything...i mean it could be such a simple mistake but in the medical field simple mistakes can sometimes lead to catastophes...

Not in any way am trying to say this individual shouldnt be a nurse..in fact i'm happy that the nursing field is growing more diverse and hope the best for her...just wondering if any of you had run into this particular situation and how those students did or are doing now?

[mydesygn]

HI all,

Thanks for all your replies, I went to class again today and took some of the advice offered, I tried to strike up a conversation with her and we talked for a bit...turns out she has been the US for 2 years now and she wants to find a job here after she graduates...Her english wasnt the best (she had an electronic dictonary out that she used while we conversated) but we communicated....She says she is having a hard time with the language but is trying to get some tutoring. Hopefully her english does get better as at the moment I dont think shed be able to get along but with time hopefully. The only thing is we are starting clinicals in July...maybe thats enough time...?

So let me try this question...have any of you ever worked with a nurse where the language barrier was an issue? for example maybe she misunderstood and gave a wrong dosage or something due to her lack of understanding the english language?

This is such a tricky subject...I think if the situation were reversed and I was in a foreign county trying to be a nurse, I would find it to be very difficult....I would worry all the time that I wasnt understanding everything...i mean it could be such a simple mistake but in the medical field simple mistakes can sometimes lead to catastophes...

Not in any way am trying to say this individual shouldnt be a nurse..in fact i'm happy that the nursing field is growing more diverse and hope the best for her...just wondering if any of you had run into this particular situation and how those students did or are doing now?

I can't say that the nurse I worked with made unusual med errors because of the language. But she has also taken jobs in areas where frequent communication about complex isssues is not necessary. For instance, one job was in outpatient dialysis, the nursing staff was compising of others nurses form India and once you learned the procedures, you would only need to know how to respond to complications. You only needed to learn a limited set of medications, how to set up and monitor the dialysis, and how to respond to any complications. The other area was an epilepsy monitoring -- mainly well outpatients entering the unit for video monitoring, all po medications. You may occasionally have to give IV Ativan for a prolonged seizure. It was the easiest job I have ever held as a nurse. So I think if you are cautious of what areas you practice in, you can avoid placing yourself in a situation where lack of immediate, effective communication could be dangerous. I would think indiviuals who are hiring at acute care facilities would not place their facilities at risk with a nurse with such low english skills, however that does not mean that she could not function effectively in other areas, such as certain clinics, outpatient areas, public health, school nursing etc. Any area without seriously, acutely indiviuals and relatively stable and consistent job expectations.

[galaxy781]

I can't say that the nurse I worked with made unusual med errors because of the language. But she has also taken jobs in areas where frequent communication about complex isssues is not necessary. For instance, one job was in outpatient dialysis, the nursing staff was compising of others nurses form India and once you learned the procedures, you would only need to know how to respond to complications. You only needed to learn a limited set of medications, how to set up and monitor the dialysis, and how to respond to any complications. The other area was an epilepsy monitoring -- mainly well outpatients entering the unit for video monitoring, all po medications. You may occasionally have to give IV Ativan for a prolonged seizure. It was the easiest job I have ever held as a nurse. So I think if you are cautious of what areas you practice in, you can avoid placing yourself in a situation where lack of immediate, effective communication could be dangerous. I would think indiviuals who are hiring at acute care facilities would not place their facilities at risk with a nurse with such low english skills, however that does not mean that she could not function effectively in other areas, such as certain clinics, outpatient areas, public health, school nursing etc. Any area without seriously, acutely indiviuals and relatively stable and consistent job expectations.

good point

[JBudd, MSN]

Galaxy,

when I was in school (many loonng years ago :chuckle ), I had difficulty studying for some exams in nursing, and it wasn't until a classmate took me aside and had me study with her roommates and herself, that I really started getting it down well enough. And yes, English is my first language!

So, here's a thought, invite her to study with you sometimes, the best way to learn something is to teach it. It may well benefit you, in really grounding your knowledge solidly, and help her. Start maybe, with just going over class notes together, see if you both took the same notes, and go from there.

The only med errors I would worry about would be on verbal orders, and she already sounds like she asks until she really understands something. The written stuff is easily looked up, and you said she was using a translator...

[rambisisking]

Galaxy,

when I was in school (many loonng years ago :chuckle ), I had difficulty studying for some exams in nursing, and it wasn't until a classmate took me aside and had me study with her roommates and herself, that I really started getting it down well enough. And yes, English is my first language!

So, here's a thought, invite her to study with you sometimes, the best way to learn something is to teach it. It may well benefit you, in really grounding your knowledge solidly, and help her. Start maybe, with just going over class notes together, see if you both took the same notes, and go from there.

The only med errors I would worry about would be on verbal orders, and she already sounds like she asks until she really understands something. The written stuff is easily looked up, and you said she was using a translator...

You people are just down right wonderful...........

I have worked for so many years in this astounding world of nursing and I have frankly have started to become disgusted with so many who call themselves nurses. I have been up reading many sites from the forum tonight even though I have to be at work in 4 hours. I want to thank you all for restoring my faith that there are truly good people working in this profession. Everything I have read has come from an interested caring point of view. I can't tell you how my heart swells to read true concerns for other human beings, and replies from other truly caring human beings. Where are you guys and why don't you work with me? This has been truly heart warming, and to you gallaxy-How wonderful that you care, both about your classmate and about the many people that she may care for in the future. I agree that It would be a good thing to bring her into your circle and assist her as you would anyone who needs help. Hats off to you all. Always remember and keep on promoting that we all belong to each other, somewhere along the way many of us have forgotten that. :)

[jeepgirl, LPN, NP]

I think you should give her a chance. It sounds like she has worked extra hard to get into the program and succeed. She doesn't need naysayers trying to hold her back.

Think of the determination she must have to even attempt nursing school here with english as a second language. She has to work twice as hard at everything she does to get where she is when it comes to studying and clinicals. Do you think YOU could do it? I know I couldn't even fathom going to an asian country and going to nursing school... I'd have a break down, not to mention that I would fail miserably. Give the girl a break.

[galaxy781]

I think you should give her a chance. It sounds like she has worked extra hard to get into the program and succeed. She doesn't need naysayers trying to hold her back.

Think of the determination she must have to even attempt nursing school here with english as a second language. She has to work twice as hard at everything she does to get where she is when it comes to studying and clinicals. Do you think YOU could do it? I know I couldn't even fathom going to an asian country and going to nursing school... I'd have a break down, not to mention that I would fail miserably. Give the girl a break.

No one is giving her a hard time. I assume when you say "naysayers" you are talking about me? No one in my class including me has done anything to "hold her back"! I already said I know that i could not do it...its only a week into my class and I am trying!! Despite my 10 hour school day I am trying to talk to this girl and arrange some study time with her, that is if she wants to. I thought I made my self very clear when I said "I wish the best for this girl and hope she succeeds" or that i'm not trying to hinder her in any way, I just wanted to know what you guys thought about her and if she could be a nurse with such a large language barrier. I feel like everyone thinks i'm saying that this girl shouldnt be a nurse or she is incapable, I never meant that, i was only worried!!! I know that she has to work twice as hard, in fact I think that I said something to that effect in an earlier post, and I think I also said if the situation was reversed I would find it very difficult! Copy and pasted from one of my earlier posts:

"This is such a tricky subject...I think if the situation were reversed and I was in a foreign county trying to be a nurse, I would find it to be very difficult....I would worry all the time that I wasnt understanding everything...i mean it could be such a simple mistake but in the medical field simple mistakes can sometimes lead to catastophes..."Not in any way am trying to say this individual shouldnt be a nurse..in fact i'm happy that the nursing field is growing more diverse and hope the best for her...just wondering if any of you had run into this particular situation and how those students did or are doing now?"

Sorry im not trying to start an argument but I just want to say this one more time to make sure its clear: I hope this girl does great, i hope she becomes a great nurse, i hope the best for her, i hope she becomes fluent and is very rewarded in her career, i hope that i will have some time that i can get to know her, i would never do anything to hinder her from achieving her goal.

[CHATSDALE]

OP has some valid points 1. it is difficult for fellow students who are trying to get so much material 2. if you are in a different culture it is up to you to adapt 3. i have worked with doctors whom i literally had to interpret to patients/family members if you work with someone you get to the language barrier is not as much a problem b/c you learn their 'english' but a md should be able to be understood after years of being here

4. encourage the Korean student not to use korean in talk with fellow korean students or family...total immerision is really the only way to really learn a language

i really believe that this student has the potential to be a good nurse...much harder to do as a second language when it is a already difficult task as it is

FOR THOSE OF YOU WITH YOUNG CHILDREN...ENCOURAGE A SECOND LANGUAGE OR ANY KIND....WILL ALWAYS BE HELPFUL

[galaxy781]

OP has some valid points 1. it is difficult for fellow students who are trying to get so much material 2. if you are in a different culture it is up to you to adapt 3. i have worked with doctors whom i literally had to interpret to patients/family members if you work with someone you get to the language barrier is not as much a problem b/c you learn their 'english' but a md should be able to be understood after years of being here

4. encourage the Korean student not to use korean in talk with fellow korean students or family...total immerision is really the only way to really learn a language

i really believe that this student has the potential to be a good nurse...much harder to do as a second language when it is a already difficult task as it is

FOR THOSE OF YOU WITH YOUNG CHILDREN...ENCOURAGE A SECOND LANGUAGE OR ANY KIND....WILL ALWAYS BE HELPFUL

i would really like to learn a foreign language, i took latin in highschool/college, when i get 2 seconds i think that i will...i hear spanish is the best bc there are so many spanish speaking americans...anyway, i agree, i think the best way to become fluent is to become immersed...thats why when i noticed she notated in korean i was kind of confused, but to each their own, maybe that just helps her learn, who knows.

[galaxy781]

You people are just down right wonderful...........

I have worked for so many years in this astounding world of nursing and I have frankly have started to become disgusted with so many who call themselves nurses. I have been up reading many sites from the forum tonight even though I have to be at work in 4 hours. I want to thank you all for restoring my faith that there are truly good people working in this profession. Everything I have read has come from an interested caring point of view. I can't tell you how my heart swells to read true concerns for other human beings, and replies from other truly caring human beings. Where are you guys and why don't you work with me? This has been truly heart warming, and to you gallaxy-How wonderful that you care, both about your classmate and about the many people that she may care for in the future. I agree that It would be a good thing to bring her into your circle and assist her as you would anyone who needs help. Hats off to you all. Always remember and keep on promoting that we all belong to each other, somewhere along the way many of us have forgotten that. :)

AWW THANKS:) i too find myself here in these forums when i have two seconds lol so i know the feeling.... i agree, i want to help her, i moved my seat so that we can sit next to eachother....i have to admit she does intrigue me as I am asian as well but grew up in Ohio not ever being in touch with my culture...so im hoping that our next conversation will go a little smoother language wise...no one else in my class is making an effort so maybe ill try to set up a class study group..:)

[fergus51]

Just my opinion, but TOTAL immersion isn't a good thing. I've been in her shoes and having a break each day where I could speak English was a really important thing. Few people realize how hard it is to constantly be struggling in another language. The break helped refresh me to learn the other language better. I know that's not the ideal answer, but it really helped me to survive. If she needs to notate in Korean right now, that could actually be a good thing because it means she understands the material well enough to put it into her own language. Better that than writing down English notes that she may or may not understand.

[galaxy781]

Just my opinion, but TOTAL immersion isn't a good thing. I've been in her shoes and having a break each day where I could speak English was a really important thing. Few people realize how hard it is to constantly be struggling in another language. The break helped refresh me to learn the other language better. I know that's not the ideal answer, but it really helped me to survive. If she needs to notate in Korean right now, that could actually be a good thing because it means she understands the material well enough to put it into her own language. Better that than writing down English notes that she may or may not understand.

good point, what is your original language? i see you are pretty fluent, how long did it take you, if you dont mind me asking? any suggestions on what i can do to help my classmate that will be most effective in helping her learn the language?