What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

subee, MSN, CRNA · May 19, 2022

8 hours ago, MunoRN said:

"Are you OK with abortion at anytime (in pregnancy)" is a bit like the "do you still beat your wife; yes or no?" question.

The premise has been put forth that if someone supports abortion without gestational limits then they support the right to have an abortion at 36 weeks, except in an otherwise healthy infant, that's not an abortion.

There is no such thing as abortion at 36 weeks. A 36 weeker is called a baby. Can you show me an example of an "abortion" at 36 weeks?

toomuchbaloney · May 19, 2022

32 minutes ago, Justlookingfornow said:

Well, if what is said in this thread is true, then no one has to worry about anyone's good faith decision to have abortions later in pregnancy,because no one is advocating for that.

However, I would most certainly question a pregnant woman's decision and her physician to have an abortion in later pregnancy for any reason other than congenital abnormalities not compatible with life. And still, most abnormalities that severe are discovered in late first trimester or early 2nd trimester where as there would be no need for a good faith provision in later pregnancy. Except in cases where patients have barriers to pre-natal care. In which removing these barriers should be the focus. Not vaguely written law.

And I agree, I do not think there would be many Dr's willing to terminate the fetus/baby in-vitro even with an abnormality, when early delivery can occure and death can happen naturally.

So abortion with some limits.

No one has established that there is a group advocating for abortions later in pregnancy. It's not clear why some are concerned about late in the pregnancy abortions for convenience. That concern seems to be more about imagination than reality.

Fortunately, medical discussions with providers are private and protected so you'll never have to review or question their reasons to terminate a pregnancy. It's curious that you continue to talk about unethical physicians that would agree to terminate a viable, late term pregnancy and then allow the infant to die... in the absence of a medical rationale... just because the woman wanted it, as if we should all be worried about this before admitting that this is not actually a real problem.

The vast majority of people would be uncomfortable with a woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy in the last trimester simply because she changed her mind but it's not good policy to legislate in ways that harms women because of an unfounded fear.

chare · May 19, 2022

If I am reading this correctly, 6 states (Alaska, Colorado, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont) and the District of Columbia haven't implemented any threshold as to when an abortion can be performed. Perhaps these might have data regarding the number of “late-term abortions” being performed?

States with Gestational Limits for Abortion

Justlookingfornow · May 19, 2022

1 hour ago, subee said:

Who, exactly, is proposing abortion during the 3rd trimester except for risk of life and congenital abnormality? You are all over the place with your argument. Why can't you answer the question "Why don't we leave Roe/Wade the way it is written now? Since no one here appears to want a law that would state that abortion should be freely available at any time during a pregnancy, you are here to argue with no one. That's why I don't get the point of why you are here. You point has been taken, taken and taken.

Yes. Roe should remain.

It's not what anyone is proposing,it's more of what is not being said. It's more about restrictions. Some on here have said that there should be no restrictions as they do not want politicians making decisions for women's reproductive health at all. Even if that could mean opening the doors to later term abortions.

It's difficult to get a definitive answer from some on here and politicians. In regards to restrictions. I can conclude most see that Roe is sufficient for most, which has restrictions.

Myself and Beerman take issue with the vagueness of proposed abortion laws such as The Woman's Protection Act. Which says (paraphrase) unrestricted abortion for whatever a woman and her Dr deems reasonable.

If you are unhappy with my contributions then ignore them or don't reply.

toomuchbaloney · May 19, 2022

39 minutes ago, chare said:

If I am reading this correctly, 6 states (Alaska, Colorado, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont) and the District of Columbia haven't implemented any threshold as to when an abortion can be performed. Perhaps these might have data regarding the number of “late-term abortions” being performed?

States with Gestational Limits for Abortion

Yep

https://dhss.alaska.gov/dph/VitalStats/Pages/data/ITOP.aspx

Justlookingfornow · May 19, 2022

43 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

No one has established that there is a group advocating for abortions later in pregnancy. It's not clear why some are concerned about late in the pregnancy abortions for convenience. That concern seems to be more about imagination than reality.

Fortunately, medical discussions with providers are private and protected so you'll never have to review or question their reasons to terminate a pregnancy. It's curious that you continue to talk about unethical physicians that would agree to terminate a viable, late term pregnancy and then allow the infant to die... in the absence of a medical rationale... just because the woman wanted it, as if we should all be worried about this before admitting that this is not actually a real problem.

The vast majority of people would be uncomfortable with a woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy in the last trimester simply because she changed her mind but it's not good policy to legislate in ways that harms women because of an unfounded fear.

Please tell me where I made any comments about unethical physicians?

I might assume that you yourself would find it to be unethical for a Dr to perform later in pregnancy abortions as you are the one who mentioned this. I never said anything about ethics of physicians.

Yes. There should be many things to focus on in relation to abortion. This is just one.

toomuchbaloney · May 19, 2022

4 minutes ago, Justlookingfornow said:

Yes. Roe should remain.

It's not what anyone is proposing,it's more of what is not being said. It's more about restrictions. Some on here have said that there should be no restrictions as they do not want politicians making decisions for women's reproductive health at all. Even if that could mean opening the doors to later term abortions.

It's difficult to get a definitive answer from some on here and politicians. In regards to restrictions. I can conclude most see that Roe is sufficient for most, which has restrictions.

Myself and Beerman take issue with the vagueness of proposed abortion laws such as The Woman's Protection Act. Which says (paraphrase) unrestricted abortion for whatever a woman and her Dr deems reasonable.

If you are unhappy with my contributions then ignore them or don't reply.

Or, she can comment as she prefers.

Why is it acceptable for doctors to collaborate privately with patients about all manner of health care except abortion? Why does the medical judgement of providers get questioned because it involves pregnancy?

toomuchbaloney · May 19, 2022

1 minute ago, Justlookingfornow said:

Please tell me where I made any comments about unethical physicians?

I might assume that you yourself would find it to be unethical for a Dr to perform later in pregnancy abortions as you are the one who mentioned this. I never said anything about ethics of physicians.

Yes. There should be many things to focus on in relation to abortion. This is just one.

So what are you concerned about when you consider a medical decision to terminate a pregnancy late in the 3rd trimester... are you concerned about ethics? Why is this an issue for you?

Why is this "concern" one of the areas of focus... is it a big problem with lots of demand for or actual 3rd trimester terminations?

Justlookingfornow · May 19, 2022

35 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Or, she can comment as she prefers.

Why is it acceptable for doctors to collaborate privately with patients about all manner of health care except abortion? Why does the medical judgement of providers get questioned because it involves pregnancy?

I would think because it has to do with another potential life, depending on what someone believes, in which is still some what being debated. No one is asking to know the specifics of any person's private matter.

Dr's are not free to do as they please. There are professional guidelines set by legal medical policy and regulations they must adhere to. They are not permitted to do whatever in private or otherwise. There for it is important for some to be reassured that this unethical practice cannot be permitted. Especially if the matter is private.

Of course she can comment as she pleases, I did not say otherwise. I can as well. She has the choice to reply or not. As do I.

Justlookingfornow · May 19, 2022

26 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

So what are you concerned about when you consider a medical decision to terminate a pregnancy late in the 3rd trimester... are you concerned about ethics? Why is this an issue for you?

Why is this "concern" one of the areas of focus... is it a big problem with lots of demand for or actual 3rd trimester terminations?

We do not know if there would be a demand or not. I wouldn't imagine there would be. However this is a concern for some in the public and in politics.

If we are to collaborate and find the best possible practice, both sides need to be able to have their concerns addressed. Otherwise how can we ever come to a amicable conclusion?

toomuchbaloney · May 19, 2022

1 hour ago, Justlookingfornow said:

I would think because it has to do with another potential life, depending on what someone believes, in which is still some what being debated. No one is asking to know the specifics of any person's private matter.

Dr's are not free to do as they please. There are professional guidelines set by legal medical policy and regulations they must adhere to. They are not permitted to do whatever in private or otherwise. There for it is important for some to be reassured that this unethical practice cannot be permitted. Especially if the matter is private.

Of course she can comment as she pleases, I did not say otherwise. I can as well. She has the choice to reply or not. As do I.

We all know that doctors practice according to legal precedent, policy and protocols, that's why I'm perplexed that there seems to be concern about the judgment of doctors when it comes to collaborating with patients about reproductive health care and procedures.

toomuchbaloney · May 19, 2022

1 hour ago, Justlookingfornow said:

We do not know if there would be a demand or not. I wouldn't imagine there would be. However this is a concern for some in the public and in politics.

If we are to collaborate and find the best possible practice, both sides need to be able to have their concerns addressed. Otherwise how can we ever come to a amicable conclusion?

It's difficult for me to want to encourage elevating the concerns of a minority of the population when that elevation results in the loss of access to abortion for vulnerable women. We have already lived in the world where abortion was illegal and unavailable in many states, the country decided that wasn't how we wanted to live as a society.