i have a simulation tomorrow where myself and another student nurse will have to take care of this patient and we have no clue on what we will have to do. Here is the patient information.
64 yrs old had left modified radial mastectomy
-allergic to ink
-Meds- lantus 10 units at night, humilin R sliding scale with meal and at night
It's essentially cheating in some cases. And, frankly, you're doing them just as much harm by serving them the answer up on a silver platter.
So, while answering the question and saving the student from having to do any thinking or work on their own might be nice for the student, ultimately it's mean-spirited to every patient that's going to come into contact with this future nurse who can't pick up on very obvious changes in a patient's condition.
It's essentially cheating in some cases. And, frankly, you're doing them just as much harm by serving them the answer up on a silver platter.
So, while answering the question and saving the student from having to do any thinking or work on their own might be nice for the student, ultimately it's mean-spirited to every patient that's going to come into contact with this future nurse who can't pick up on very obvious changes in a patient's condition.
There are so many other choices than to either "serve up the answer" for them, or deliberately setting them up to fail.....Think about it.
I see it as just deserts.
It's essentially cheating in some cases. And, frankly, you're doing them just as much harm by serving them the answer up on a silver platter.
So, while answering the question and saving the student from having to do any thinking or work on their own might be nice for the student, ultimately it's mean-spirited to every patient that's going to come into contact with this future nurse who can't pick up on very obvious changes in a patient's condition.
There are so many other choices than to either "serve up the answer" for them, or deliberately setting them up to fail.....Think about it.
Actions have consequences. Looking for answers on a message board full of strangers (and not even in the student section, which shows the poster's total lack of initiative) is a pretty stupid thing to do. In addition to being totally unwilling to do the work necessary for a relatively easy assignment, it also shows poor judgement.
Yup, just the kind of nurse I want to have someday. This poster won't come back and post in this thread. They won't engage in any sort of discussion with those who are willing to help lead them to the correct answer. Why? Because they just want the answer. They're not interested in the why and how. They want to pass their test and move on.
There are already too many of those types in nursing today. Let's start culling the herd, hmm? Standards are already too low as it is.
Specializes in Mental Health, Medical Research, Periop.
There is no way to tell if this student has made an effort because he/she did not post what her and her partner came up with. Only saying that they are "clueless." I think guidance is one thing, but critical thinking gets better with practice, and we cant do that for them. It is frustrating to try to figure everything out, but with the information ahead of time, this is a great advantage to the student, because they can break each abnormal down and use ADPIE to figure out how they will treat this patient. Usually simulations are group exercises right? WHen the students put their heads together and start throwing out solutions, it gets them thinking - which is a healthy way to learn. When youre in the field, no one is going to feed you the answers - this is prep for the real world. I dont see how we can really help this student without doing the critical thinking for them, and how is that helpful? THe 1st few posts did a great job in guiding the students by giving them ways to think about the scenerio. Which I think is very helpful. GOOD LUCK TO YOU OP, you will do fine tomorrow, but you have to think this one through yourself, so that you can build you critical thinking skills.
Some of your points are valid however; the original issue at hand w/my post to you, was that setting people up for failure is mean-spirited. There are plenty of people that have started out making social, as well as personal, and work related faux pa's, etc. However, with some guidance, they have become all the better because of that guidance. (Again, I will restate, NOT because they were handed the answers, or handled with kid gloves, or had someone to do their work for them).
Those that come here looking for easy answers can be told they're not getting them, as opposed to setting them up for failure. Those that take a 2nd look at themselves and decide to NOT take the easy way will gather themselves up and forge ahead, while those that refuse to be responsible for their learning will go away....Giving the wrong answers to people may also do a lot of damage to future patients, as well.
Also, it isn't your duty, nor is it your right to purposely set someone else up to fail or "cull the herd." I can feel the big debate coming on over this, so I will respectfully and hopefully w/some grace step out, now. I've stated my opinion-you're perfectly welcome to disagree.
Actions have consequences. Looking for answers on a message board full of strangers (and not even in the student section, which shows the poster's total lack of initiative) is a pretty stupid thing to do. In addition to being totally unwilling to do the work necessary for a relatively easy assignment, it also shows poor judgement.
Yup, just the kind of nurse I want to have someday. This poster won't come back and post in this thread. They won't engage in any sort of discussion with those who are willing to help lead them to the correct answer. Why? Because the just want the answer. They're not interested in the why and how. They want to pass their test and move on.
There are already too many of those types in nursing today. Let's start culling the herd, hmm? Standards are already too low as it is.
Some of your points are valid however; the original issue at hand w/my post to you, was that setting people up for failure is mean-spirited. There are plenty of people that have started out making social, as well as personal, and work related faux pa's, etc. However, with some guidance, they have become all the better because of that guidance. (Again, I will restate, NOT because they were handed the answers, or handled with kid gloves, or had someone to do their work for them).
Those that come here looking for easy answers can be told they're not getting them, as opposed to setting them up for failure. Those that take a 2nd look at themselves and decide to NOT take the easy way will gather themselves up and forge ahead, while those that refuse to be responsible for their learning will go away....Giving the wrong answers to people may also do a lot of damage to future patients, as well.
Also, it isn't your duty, nor is it your right to purposely set someone else up to fail or "cull the herd." I can feel the big debate coming on over this, so I will respectfully and hopefully w/some grace step out, now. I've stated my opinion-you're perfectly welcome to disagree.
Where did I imply I had a "right" to set someone up to fail? (And for the record, by coming here looking for easy answers, the student has already set themselves up to fail. I will have set no one up for anything.)
Then we'll have to disagree. Despite the fact that my post was half tongue-in-cheek, any idiot who gets an answer from this (or any) message board, and doesn't double check it gets what they deserve. There are a lot of registered, licensed nurses on this forum who ask some pretty frightening questions. Students aren't always going to get the correct answer even from a well-meaning nurse.
Where did I imply I had a "right" to set someone up to fail? (And for the record, by coming here looking for easy answers, the student has already set themselves up to fail. I will have set no one up for anything.)
Then we'll have to disagree. Despite the fact that my post was half tongue-in-cheek, any idiot who gets an answer from this (or any) message board, and doesn't double check it gets what they deserve. There are a lot of registered, licensed nurses on this forum who ask some pretty frightening questions. Students aren't always going to get the correct answer even from a well-meaning nurse.
And I, personally, have already accrued so many disciplinary points against my allnurses.com account for arguing similar issues that I can no longer afford to do so. I'm grateful that others seem to be on the same page.
And Fribbet, thank you. Your post means more than you know.
It's not only appropriate for students to use alternative sources of information, but it's critical that they incorporate using other sources (other than textbooks and instructors) into their learning process. With experience, students learn how to be critical of the reliability of various sources, which will be extremely important once textbooks and instructors are no longer readily available in their practice.
For instance, because the OP asked this question of us, they have learned to take into account that some nurses believe students should be given the incorrect answer to punish them for asking, which is good to know when asking questions of other nurses.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I think helping them find the path of critical thinking and providing links can lead them to make their own deduction what path to take. Although why some of them don't google their own question makes me question their work ethic and their sincerity in seeking "help" instead of an easy answer....
I think helping them find the path of critical thinking and providing links can lead them to make their own deduction what path to take. Although why some of them don't google their own question makes me question their work ethic and their sincerity in seeking "help" instead of an easy answer....
I agree with what you've said. In regards to your comment of why they don't do their own google searches.....In my experience, I have asked for help before because I simply could not find the info I needed because I did not have a good search phrase. I would do searches but would not come up with any good "hits." I remember asking for some help a couple months ago about getting some sort of JCAHO accreditation templates or guidance for performing a root cause analysis. At that time, I was accused of trying to have others do my homework for me...I have been an AN member since 2006 and I believe that was the only time I've ever asked for help (I could be mistaken, but I know for certain that asking for homework help is a rare occurrence for me)....Anyway, I think the all out negative attitude towards helping students is another symptom of larger problems in a lack of support amongst professionals in the nursing field.
I pretty much agree with everyone's assessment (yes, even roser13 and fribblet's ) that we shouldn't be handing out the answers or "freebies" to people looking for the lazy way to do school.
) that we shouldn't be handing out the answers or "freebies" to people looking for the lazy way to do school.
Fribblet
839 Posts
I see it as just deserts.
It's essentially cheating in some cases. And, frankly, you're doing them just as much harm by serving them the answer up on a silver platter.
So, while answering the question and saving the student from having to do any thinking or work on their own might be nice for the student, ultimately it's mean-spirited to every patient that's going to come into contact with this future nurse who can't pick up on very obvious changes in a patient's condition.