What exactly IS an "Anti Vaxxer"?

toomuchbaloney · Sep 25, 2021

@RMK2021

Your focus on mild illness as an excuse to refuse vaccination dishonors the 680,000 dead Americans. You should stop. You aren't going to convince us that this pandemic isn't a big deal or that vaccination is unnecessary.

macawake, MSN · Sep 25, 2021

15 hours ago, subee said:

They reject the proven benefit of this particular vaccine yet think it's appropriate to show up at an emergency room when they get sick. So you believe that hospital treatment is somehow beneficial but the vaccine is not?

2 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

Yes since vaccinated people still get and die from COVID

Your reply to subee’s post is nonsensical. People sick with Covid-19 seek hospital treatment because it oftentimes works. They don’t seek hospital treatment because hospitals cure 100% of Covid cases. Some patients die from their Covid-19 infection while hospitalized. It still makes sense to go because many lives can be saved.

Vaccines don’t protect against serious illness and death all of the time, but most of the time. It makes at least as must sense to get vaccinated as it does to seek hospital treatment once you’re infected. I’d argue that it makes more sense to get vaccinated since that significantly decreases ones risk of having to go to the hospital in the the first place (to get treatment for a Covid infection).

You appear to be arguing that a for example 92% reduction of risk has no added value compared to a 0% reduction of risk. Does that actually seem logical to you?

Charlcie, BSN, RN · Sep 25, 2021

38 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

@RMK2021

Your focus on mild illness as an excuse to refuse vaccination dishonors the 680,000 dead Americans. You should stop. You aren't going to convince us that this pandemic isn't a big deal or that vaccination is unnecessary.

The mild illness argument is really offensive to me. The point of vaccination is to achieve herd immunity so the poor souls who WILL get seriously sick if they get COVID have a better chance of survival. Also so our healthcare system can sustain the burden COVID brings with the patients who do need to be hospitalized while also allowing us to care for patients who need care, surgery, etc. not related to COVID.

macawake, MSN · Sep 25, 2021

7 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

Does any one even know the true numbers of COVID? You don't because there are probably tens of thousands of people who got it, and never went to the hospital. I am not saying that it is not serious for some, but I bet that true number of infection is much higher, which means the survival rate is much higher. Not to mention, have you ever done a drive thru test? I have, they give you a swab that goes up your nose, do you know the failed percentage rate of those that don't sick up their nose far enough and get a false negative rate, when they have it? No, you don't I don't either. But I have meet 2 or three people now that have told me they found out later through some of other means that they had COVID and they did not even know it. Israel did a study that shows natural immunity is ??NOT TRUE —> 33 times <— INACCURATE?? stronger than the vaccine, when Dr. Facui was asked about this study all he could say was well I will have to look into it and get back to you on that, when he was asked about natural immunity. But everyone needs to get the vaccine? What about those with natural immunity?

Are you a nurse?

I haven’t seen a single nurse on this forum argue that Covid IFR isn’t lower than Covid CFR. I’ve not seen any healthcare professional anywhere argue that point. It would be a stupid claim (for what I hope is very obvious reasons).

Why are you trying to make a point out of something that no one has ever argued?

When you make claims like the one you made about the Israeli study, you really have to include a link to the study you are referring to. I took the liberty of editing your quote slightly, since I have a reasonable idea which study it is you are referring to. It does not say 33 times. But you are welcome to link the study that says what you say it does. (I will remove my thumbs down commentary on your claim if you provide the source that supports your claim).

We are capable of analyzing studies and need to see the study design and any limitations and weaknesses it might have. You just presenting a number is of no scientific value and doesn’t contribute to a fact-based discussion among healthcare professionals.

About the study and natural immunity…

If we have two groups of 1,000 individuals each.

Group A haven’t had a Covid-19 infection and all were vaccinated x months ago.

Group B have all had a Covid-19 infection y months ago and none are vaccinated.

In time period z, 13 people in Group A get a breakthrough infection and 1 person in Group B gets reinfected.

So…. In Group A we have a grand total of 13 instances of a person having a Covid-19 infection…

In Group B we have a total of 1,001 instances of a person having a Covid-19 infection…

A little reminder here that these two groups are equal in size..

But 77 times more infections in Group B than in Group A…

(Aren’t numbers fun… ?)

It seems that people who champion natural immunity choose to disregard that all the people in Group B have already faced the risk of hospitalization, severe disease and death once, before we even start to make comparisons…

And that among the 1,000 people in Group B, those people who died from their first Covid infection, can’t be included (for obvious reasons). But their deaths demonstrate the very real risk of going the natural infection route, instead of getting vaccinated.

Guest219794 · Sep 25, 2021

2 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

I don't claim to have "done my research" I will tell you that I have read everything put out by Pfizer, Mondera and J&J on the vaccines, on their website, along with the CDC And WHO, and the WHO again still shows that most people who get COVID have mild or moderate symptoms and that most recover. The WHO also says don't wear a mask while exercising. So which one carries more weight?

from the WHO mythbusters page

FACT: People should NOT wear masks while exercising

People should NOT wear masks when exercising, as masks may reduce the ability to breathe comfortably.

Sweat can make the mask become wet more quickly which makes it difficult to breathe and promotes the growth of microorganisms. The important preventive measure during exercise is to maintain physical distance of at least one meter from others.

FACT: Most people who get COVID-19 recover from it

Most people who get COVID-19 have mild or moderate symptoms and can recover thanks to supportive care. If you have a cough, fever and difficulty breathing seek medical care early - call your health facility by telephone first. If you have fever and live in an area with malaria or dengue seek medical care immediately.

OK-

Most people recover.

Not sure what your point is. Most people survived World War II. Most people survive car crashes. Most drunks who get in their car make it home just fine. In what way is that relevant?

Was there somebody saying most people don't recover?

As befuddling as it is that you brought up that factoid, the exercise thing is really confusing. Not information- that fact that you brought it up in this context.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Sep 25, 2021

9 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

I don't claim to have "done my research" I will tell you that I have read everything put out by Pfizer, Mondera and J&J on the vaccines, on their website, along with the CDC And WHO, and the WHO again still shows that most people who get COVID have mild or moderate symptoms and that most recover. The WHO also says don't wear a mask while exercising. So which one carries more weight?

from the WHO mythbusters page

FACT: People should NOT wear masks while exercising

People should NOT wear masks when exercising, as masks may reduce the ability to breathe comfortably.

Sweat can make the mask become wet more quickly which makes it difficult to breathe and promotes the growth of microorganisms. The important preventive measure during exercise is to maintain physical distance of at least one meter from others.

FACT: Most people who get COVID-19 recover from it

Most people who get COVID-19 have mild or moderate symptoms and can recover thanks to supportive care. If you have a cough, fever and difficulty breathing seek medical care early - call your health facility by telephone first. If you have fever and live in an area with malaria or dengue seek medical care immediately.

So what if most people recover from Covid? The fact is that it is costing up billions of dollars to care for these patients who needn't have become sick in the first place. It has created economic hardships for people as well as industries. Some hospitals have become hellish, dangerous places to work? If that isn't enough tsuris for people to get vaccinated, what is?

jive turkey · Sep 28, 2021

On 9/20/2021 at 2:55 PM, hherrn said:

I would say, that most people who have decided against based on their "research" fit into the category.

I have a bachelors degree, an AD nursing, RN, current CEN, former CCRN, and totally nailed Micro and A&P while in school.

I have not "done my research", as I am not qualified. What I am qualified to do is understand who the actual experts are- folks respected by other experts in the field. When somebody says they decided against vaccination after doing their research, I am pretty sure they mean that they read the drivel spoon fed to them by the facebook algorythms.

Please share how the answers to these questions define what an Anti-Vaxxer is and justify why blanket mandates are necessary.

emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Sep 29, 2021

19 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Please share how the answers to these questions define what an Anti-Vaxxer is and justify why blanket mandates are necessary.

♾. There are pages of the answer to that question.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Sep 29, 2021

37 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

♾. There are pages of the answer to that question.

Yeah. Why doesn't he ask how we know the earth isn't flat and expect an answer in a little box in a forum?

toomuchbaloney · Sep 29, 2021

3 hours ago, emtb2rn said:

♾. There are pages of the answer to that question.

He ignores the answers and argues semantics.

Guest219794 · Sep 29, 2021

3 hours ago, emtb2rn said:

♾. There are pages of the answer to that question.

Despite the obscenity he posts, he is allowed to dominate the forum.

That's not a personal attack. It's how one defines "obscene". Four letter words certainly don't meet my definition, but a nurse contributing to the disinformation killing people is obscene. It's big nasty gob of spit in the face of nurses who work with critical and emergent Covid patients.

toomuchbaloney · Sep 29, 2021

6 minutes ago, hherrn said:

Despite the obscenity he posts, he is allowed to dominate the forum.

That's not a personal attack. It's how one defines "obscene". Four letter words certainly don't meet my definition, but a nurse contributing to the disinformation killing people is obscene. It's big nasty gob of spit in the face of nurses who work with critical and emergent Covid patients.

Because he dominates threads with disinformation he is countered. It's really a double edged sword to have dangerous disinformation about a pandemic remain unmoderated in the threads.