What exactly IS an "Anti Vaxxer"?

jive turkey · Sep 18, 2021

32 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

1.Antivaxxers, traditionally, have held to this notion that natural immunity is safe (think of parents having chicken pox parties) and vaccines are dangerous. I've never heard of covid parties but there is this undercurrent that the vaccine is more dangerous than the illness.

In most of our lifetimes we have not seen emergent vaccines for illness which many living had as children (varicella, HPV are probably the notable ones). It will take time to determine how lasting and protective immunity is, but the fact remains if you have no immunity, vaccines are vastly safer for acquiring immunity.

2.I'm not sure what is meant by "injury part reducing effectiveness".

1. Yea, I wouldn't advise people across the board take they're chances with a disease vs consider vaccination. I've heard of COVID parties, that's a very bad idea. I'm being nice by saying very bad.

Where I see grey areas is with some of the diseases that aren't as lethal in certain cohorts vs others such as varicella, influenza, COVID.

When I say grey area, that's not an endorsement to forego vaccination for the naive or that anyone is better off without it.

Then you have others like HEP, Polio, meningitis that nobody should even consider "taking their chances" with natural immunity.

The people you describe sound plagued with a lack of accurate information yet saturated with inaccurate information.

SmilingBluEyes · Sep 18, 2021

4 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

1. Yea, I wouldn't advise people across the board take they're chances with a disease vs consider vaccination. I've heard of COVID parties, that's a very bad idea. I'm being nice by saying very bad.

Where I see grey areas is with some of the diseases that aren't as lethal in certain cohorts vs others such as varicella, influenza, COVID.

When I say grey area, that's not an endorsement to forego vaccination for the naive or that anyone is better off without it.

Then you have others like HEP, Polio, meningitis that nobody should even consider "taking their chances" with natural immunity.

The people you describe sound plagued with a lack of accurate information yet saturated with inaccurate information.

"COVID parties" really? this is a first for me. Idiots.

Guest1171160 · Sep 18, 2021

I used to think antivaxxers were those that thought natural immunity was better and that vaccines were dangerous, and so they were against them and getting them. According to the news media and every one these days that is not the only case. Now antivaxxers also include those that have had previous vaccines, and flu shoots every year, but don't like the idea of being forced to get this vaccine. Many of the nurses that are against it state they have had other vaccines and regularly get a flu shoot. And, sometimes, you will see coverage on some station where they do talk to people in the crowd that have already had their shot (and have card to prove it) but are standing out there anyway because they don't believe it should be forced on people.

So according to the news media, the white house, and who knows who all else.... antivaxxers are those that believe natural immunity is correct way to go AND those who have previously gotten the vaccine, and are protesting for the right to choose, AND those that don't want to get this vaccine yet but have gotten other vaccines in the past, and get the flu shot pretty much every year. So what it really means who knows?

toomuchbaloney · Sep 18, 2021

At this moment in time I submit that "antivaxxer" is anyone who refuses and/or promotes refusal of the covid vaccination based upon propaganda or pseudoscience. At this moment, prior vaccination status or stance is irrelevant to the moniker. Once the nation is out of pandemic level disease spread we will return to a broader definition of "antivaxxer" ... IMV.

Antivaxxers put vulnerable populations at risk. Right now the covid vulnerable population includes all school children under age 12 plus all unvaccinated adults, right? Is that more than 100 million vulnerable people?

Guest1171160 · Sep 19, 2021

17 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

At this moment in time I submit that "antivaxxer" is anyone who refuses and/or promotes refusal of the covid vaccination based upon propaganda or pseudoscience. At this moment, prior vaccination status or stance is irrelevant to the moniker. Once the nation is out of pandemic level disease spread we will return to a broader definition of "antivaxxer" ... IMV.

Antivaxxers put vulnerable populations at risk. Right now the covid vulnerable population includes all school children under age 12 plus all unvaccinated adults, right? Is that more than 100 million vulnerable people?

LOL this cracked me up.... once the pandemic is over we will return to our nomal use of the word. Sure let's just change the meaning of words as we go.

toomuchbaloney · Sep 19, 2021

9 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

LOL this cracked me up.... once the pandemic is over we will return to our nomal use of the word. Sure let's just change the meaning of words as we go.

How did I change the meaning of a word? Some would like to exclude covid vaccine refusal from the antivaxxer definition. Would that be better? Could those individuals who push against covid mitigating strategies including vaccination while the country is struggling with all of the consequences of a poorly managed pandemic be referred to using a unique moniker? That way we wouldn't confuse them with the run of the mill antivaxxers who might trend a bit more hippie and left wingy than the average white person intentionally unvaccinated against covid today.

Orwell wrote about changing definitions and using words to deceive people.

jive turkey · Sep 19, 2021

On 9/17/2021 at 11:14 PM, RKM2021 said:

I used to think antivaxxers were those that thought natural immunity was better and that vaccines were dangerous, and so they were against them and getting them. According to the news media and every one these days that is not the only case. Now antivaxxers also include those that have had previous vaccines, and flu shoots every year, but don't like the idea of being forced to get this vaccine. Many of the nurses that are against it state they have had other vaccines and regularly get a flu shoot. And, sometimes, you will see coverage on some station where they do talk to people in the crowd that have already had their shot (and have card to prove it) but are standing out there anyway because they don't believe it should be forced on people.

So according to the news media, the white house, and who knows who all else.... antivaxxers are those that believe natural immunity is correct way to go AND those who have previously gotten the vaccine, and are protesting for the right to choose, AND those that don't want to get this vaccine yet but have gotten other vaccines in the past, and get the flu shot pretty much every year. So what it really means who knows?

Exactly. The term is abused and used to refer to anyone that doesn’t agree with vaccinating the entire population (minutes contraindicated) and objects to the mandate. That's not right. It's not that black and white.

Guest1171160 · Sep 20, 2021

13 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

How did I change the meaning of a word? Some would like to exclude covid vaccine refusal from the antivaxxer definition. Would that be better? Could those individuals who push against covid mitigating strategies including vaccination while the country is struggling with all of the consequences of a poorly managed pandemic be referred to using a unique moniker? That way we wouldn't confuse them with the run of the mill antivaxxers who might trend a bit more hippie and left wingy than the average white person intentionally unvaccinated against covid today.

Orwell wrote about changing definitions and using words to deceive people.

If you ask any one most thing the anti vaxxers are against all vaccinations. Most have been surprised to learn some of the people protesting have had vaccinations in the past and have a regular flue shot. I have had many conversations with other people were they incorrectly state that people are protesting because they don't believe in vaccinations. While that may be the case for a set amount of those not wanting to take the shot, many people in those crowds have have vaccines before. There issue is a right to choice... for many it has nothing to do with being an anti vaxxer and to label all of them as such makes no sense.

Anit vaxxers don't believe in vaccines period. Most of the ones not wanting to the COVID 19 shot have had other vaccines. They just want more info and time for this shot or they just want the right to decide for themseleves. Plain and simple. And to say well lets just call everyone an anti vaxxer (doesn't matter if they have had other vaccines ) is stupid.

Have you seen most of the so called anti vaxxers signs? Most of them are about the mandate and freedom not about the shot itself. I have seen tons of pictures especially from the ones outside Disney. Most of them are focused on the mandate not the shot.

toomuchbaloney · Sep 20, 2021

1 hour ago, RKM2021 said:

If you ask any one most thing the anti vaxxers are against all vaccinations. Most have been surprised to learn some of the people protesting have had vaccinations in the past and have a regular flue shot. I have had many conversations with other people were they incorrectly state that people are protesting because they don't believe in vaccinations. While that may be the case for a set amount of those not wanting to take the shot, many people in those crowds have have vaccines before. There issue is a right to choice... for many it has nothing to do with being an anti vaxxer and to label all of them as such makes no sense.

Anit vaxxers don't believe in vaccines period. Most of the ones not wanting to the COVID 19 shot have had other vaccines. They just want more info and time for this shot or they just want the right to decide for themseleves. Plain and simple. And to say well lets just call everyone an anti vaxxer (doesn't matter if they have had other vaccines ) is stupid.

Have you seen most of the so called anti vaxxers signs? Most of them are about the mandate and freedom not about the shot itself. I have seen tons of pictures especially from the ones outside Disney. Most of them are focused on the mandate not the shot.

If they are only against the mandates they will protest the mandates and accept the vaccine.

Some people are against the covid vaccine.

Against = anti

Vaccine = vaxx

Would you be more comfortable if we called them anti-covaxxers?

Guest1171160 · Sep 20, 2021

22 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

If they are only against the mandates they will protest the mandates and accept the vaccine.

Some people are against the covid vaccine.

Against = anti

Vaccine = vaxx

Would you be more comfortable if we called them anti-covaxxers?

No just keeping calling all of them that, even those that have had the COVID shoot, that's what the news media does, I suppose the same is said for here.

We know there will be booster shots for everyone at some point. Or you will have to get the shot every year.

We could call the anti booster crowd (if that comes up) anti-boosters or anti-boos LOL

Guest219794 · Sep 20, 2021

6 hours ago, RKM2021 said:

While that may be the case for a set amount of those not wanting to take the shot, many people in those crowds have have vaccines before. There issue is a right to choice

Nah.

Most of these folks are not actually against mandatory vaccines. They are against mandating this vaccine.

Very few of them advocate for re-introducing polio for example. Or Rubella. (Obviously some nut jobs do, but not the bulk of them.)

I have not heard any of them say that they would like immigrants to this country choose which vaccines to take. All in favor of mandatory vaccines in that case.

The governors who are calling "choice" a fundamental right all mandate vaccines. All of them. Coincidentally, they are all vaccinated. Along with many of the anti-mandate public figures who refuse to disclose their vaccination status. They know the benefits of vaccination, but are too chicken poop to speak the truth publicly for fear of getting booed like Trump was in Alabama.

This "choice" thing is pure caca. (sp?)

It is true that "anti-vaxxer" is a confusing term, as, historically it referred to a different kind of mis-lead, mis-misinformed threat to public health. This new breed of mis-lead, mis-informed threats to public health really does deserve its own name.

OTOH- Language evolves as culture changes. And, in context, use of the term is easily understood by many. But, in the interest of not offending the new nut jobs by lumping them with the old nut jobs, maybe we should use a different term I nominate Neo Anti Vaxxer. It's a new world, and they deserve a new name.

allnurses Guide · Sep 20, 2021

18 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Exactly. The term is abused and used to refer to anyone that doesn’t agree with vaccinating the entire population (minutes contraindicated) and objects to the mandate. That's not right. It's not that black and white.

What would you call the people that remain unvaccinated for reasons other than medical contraindication at this point? What about the unvaccinated people that are unvaccinated for political/non-scientific reasons?