What can ADN nurses achieve with a BSN other than accumulating more debts?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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  1. Is BSN a good investment?

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I talked with a couple ADN nurses who have completed their BSN degrees.

They get a few dollars more in pay, but their debt is over their head. Amazing..;)

I think that as a profession it is important to graduate strong, well-rounded, well-spoken, educated nurses. ***Disclaimer: If you are an ADN reading this, I don't mean you aren't those things***

What do you mean? Say what you mean, and mean what you say....;)

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Specializes in ICU.

Seeing as how you have posted several threads about not trusting your advisor and apparently having an issue with the school you are going to, I have to wonder what the point is. Ok, you are having an issue right now. That does not translate into everyone having an issue right now. I have no issues with my school or advisors and am quite happy with my decisions to pursue my career path so far. It is up to you to do the research and make informed decisions. Some people are happy with their BSN and others happy with their ADN. My schooling is being paid for out of pocket. I happen to have to the money to do it, others don't.

I don't see anything wrong with more education. The more education a person has, the better. Yes a BSN requires some more general ed credits than an ADN. That is a 4 year college no matter what degree you get. An engineer is taking that history class the same as a nurse. If you want your BSN, that's a part of it. That is not going to change.

And I have yet to hear of a NP having an issue finding a job. Nor a PA. Those jobs are in high demand right now for several reasons. With medicare reimbursements going down it is cheaper to higher a NP or PA to take care of office visits and minor things. Doctors are expensive and there is a desperate need for them right now especially in family practice. So until they can fill those positions, a nurse or PA is the way to go especially in a family practice. NPs are now being used frequently in ERs to treat those who have medicaid. Out here medicaid recepients go to the ER for everything. Our urgent care clinics do not accept medicaid insurance so they are told to go to the ER where they promptly see a NP to diagnose them. Why? Because it is cheaper. The hospital can get back some of its money.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Seeing as how you have posted several threads about not trusting your advisor and apparently having an issue with the school you are going to, I have to wonder what the point is. Ok, you are having an issue right now. That does not translate into everyone having an issue right now. I have no issues with my school or advisors and am quite happy with my decisions to pursue my career path so far. It is up to you to do the research and make informed decisions. Some people are happy with their BSN and others happy with their ADN. My schooling is being paid for out of pocket. I happen to have to the money to do it, others don't.

I don't see anything wrong with more education. The more education a person has, the better. Yes a BSN requires some more general ed credits than an ADN. That is a 4 year college no matter what degree you get. An engineer is taking that history class the same as a nurse. If you want your BSN, that's a part of it. That is not going to change.

And I have yet to hear of a NP having an issue finding a job. Nor a PA. Those jobs are in high demand right now for several reasons. With medicare reimbursements going down it is cheaper to higher a NP or PA to take care of office visits and minor things. Doctors are expensive and there is a desperate need for them right now especially in family practice. So until they can fill those positions, a nurse or PA is the way to go especially in a family practice. NPs are now being used frequently in ERs to treat those who have medicaid. Out here medicaid recepients go to the ER for everything. Our urgent care clinics do not accept medicaid insurance so they are told to go to the ER where they promptly see a NP to diagnose them. Why? Because it is cheaper. The hospital can get back some of its money.

Well said...

At this point I rather the OP stop projecting and tell us what difficulties they are experiencing...I'm starting to get wary of posters such as this...who knows what the real deal is...

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

OP...I think you are very clear about your dissatisfaction and disappointment with the system. The ADN BSN argument has gone on for years promoted by those who will benefit the most...the schools. When there are schools out there that charge $100,000.00 for an entry nursing program.....it's clear who benefits and it is not the nurse at the bedside.

While everyone can praise the laurels of more education it is clear who is behind the studies. The schools and those who benefit....the very academics that sell their books. By forcing the worker to incur more debt it ensures a compliant, although not happy, workforce. They are in debt and therefore must work.

The next economic crisis will be defaulted student loans.

With an abysmal workforce and poor employment prospects everyone wants to be a nurse and an APRN for the "Big Bucks". People who see that some nurses in parts of the country can make $60.00-$70.00/hr people forget about the cost of living surrounding that area. The moment that the economy improves and the next best thing starts.....nurses leave in drives leaving a shortage once again.

Nursing goes through cycles like this...this too shall pass.

I am not so sure my anger would be focused on the RN BSN programs...my frustration is on all of these ADN schools that cropped up charging phenomenal fees for sub par education and lying to the students about a non existent nursing shortage and that in the current job market preference is given to the BSN grad.

I have my own opinions about forcing the workforce, especially nurses with >10 years experience back to school when they would best benefit the patient by certification in their field of expertise...but that has been hashed over more than once. deadhorse.gif

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Esmel, your assessment of the problem, and your comments about schools amazed me, and some others as well. You are right.

We have just gone through the housing market crisis. The next crisis will be defaulted student loans. And who is to blame? The schools and us, the students, who are feeding their greed for money. Who else can we blame for the pending crisis?

Many years ago there are huge demands for PA and NP. Hospitals, physicians and clinics are hiring them right after they graduate. Colleges and universities see this as an opportunity to make money. And so they open new schools to attract students into their PA and NP programs. And now, a decade or so later, the supply of NP and PA exceeds what the market needs.

The greedy schools create the demand for more PA, NP, BSN, MSN, PhD, and so forth, and not the market. The market is over-saturated with these specialties. And if they are not now, they will be soon. I know of a few PAs who recently graduated from school who have to travel 60 miles from where they live to find work. Everybody wants to get BSN, MSN, PhD and take out huge student loans to pay for their education and feed the money hungry schools, unless they are the children of Mitt Romney or Donald Trump who don't need student loans. Where is this madness going to take us to?

Again, you are right, instead of requiring nurses to go back to school, they would best benefit by certification in their field of specialty.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Esmel, your assessment of the problem, and your comments about schools amazed me, and some others as well. You are right.

We have just gone through the housing market crisis. The next crisis will be defaulted student loans. And who is to blame? The schools and us, the students, who are feeding their greed for money. Who else can we blame for the pending crisis?

Many years ago there are huge demands for PA and NP. Hospitals, physicians and clinics are hiring them right after they graduate. Colleges and universities see this as an opportunity to make money. And so they open new schools to attract students into their PA and NP programs. And now, a decade or so later, the supply of NP and PA exceeds what the market needs.

The greedy schools create the demand for more PA, NP, BSN, MSN, PhD, and so forth, and not the market. The market is over-saturated with these specialties. And if they are not now, they will be soon. I know of a few PAs who recently graduated from school who have to travel 60 miles from where they live to find work. Everybody wants to get BSN, MSN, PhD and take out huge student loans to pay for their education and feed the money hungry schools, unless they are the children of Mitt Romney or Donald Trump who don't need student loans. Where is this madness going to take us to?

Again, you are right, instead of requiring nurses to go back to school, they would best benefit by certification in their field of specialty.

I don't know where this will end up. Nor can I predict the impact it will eventually have...it will be a problem.

It makes me sad that the profession itself has allowed this to happen. It is what it is. I know that for my daughter the BSN was the only option on the table.

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Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

The problem is not the desire to get an MSN or PhD, as I see it. The problem is the willingness to take out huge student loans to do it. Same with the plain old RN. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a nurse (even though it's a crappy job market) - but I hear about some people here going to those for-profit schools like ITT and spending $80-100K to do it! That's just crazy. Getting a degree is not the problem - there are smart ways to do it and there are stupid, foolish ways to do it.

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I easily paid out of pocket for the BSN completion program I completed at the state university nearest my home, and the BSN opened up many professional doors for me. I have no argument with the people who don't want to further their education, but I do get v. tired of listening to them complain about not having the opportunities they want (including, in many parts of the country, the opportunity to find any kind of job at all these days) when "the handwriting has been on the wall" for many years now regarding the move towards preferring (or, in the case of a growing number of employers, outright requiring) BSNs.

30 years ago, in my hospital-based diploma program, the faculty told us that we should plan on completing a BSN degree at some point after graduating, that the diploma was an entry into the profession, not a terminal degree. That was true then, and it's even more true now. We all make choices about our lives, and we all have to live with the consequences of those choices. As far as I'm concerned, ADN and diploma-prepared nurses who don't want to return to school are welcome not to and shoudn't be required to. But don't complain later on because you don't like the way things work out over time.

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I easily paid out of pocket for the BSN completion program I completed at the state university nearest my home, and the BSN opened up many professional doors for me. I have no argument with the people who don't want to further their education, but I do get v. tired of listening to them complain about not having the opportunities they want (including, in many parts of the country, the opportunity to find any kind of job at all these days) when "the handwriting has been on the wall" for many years now regarding the move towards preferring (or, in the case of a growing number of employers, outright requiring) BSNs.

30 years ago, in my hospital-based diploma program, the faculty told us that we should plan on completing a BSN degree at some point after graduating, that the diploma was an entry into the profession, not a terminal degree. That was true then, and it's even more true now. We all make choices about our lives, and we all have to live with the consequences of those choices. As far as I'm concerned, ADN and diploma-prepared nurses who don't want to return to school are welcome not to and shoudn't be required to. But don't complain later on because you don't like the way things work out over time.

I really like your posts.

I think you are wise,and that is why I have to ask you this question.

Do you think Rn to Bsn degrees obtained from online schools(esp ones that have no brick and mortar campus) will be looked down upon at some point in the future?

There is that "inner voice" telling me it might not be a good idea to get the Bsn from an online program,even though most online Rn to Bsn programs are regionally accredited and non profit.

I really want to attend but the above plus their Pass/Fail system has me undecided.

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...

I did not learn much (clinically) in my BSN program, but I will say that it did make me a better nurse. It broadened my perspectives, changed how I see management, health care in general, and most importantly my patients. I understand research, can interpret statistics, have an improved viewpoint regarding ethical dilemmas, and function better as part of the interdisciplinary team. I can't specifically tell you exactly what it was, but I did benefit from the program.

As a professional nurse, obtaining a BSN is important. It certainly makes you more well-rounded. I loved my ADN program, but I do not think ADN programs are necessarily benefitting the overall profession. I think that as a profession it is important to graduate strong, well-rounded, well-spoken, educated nurses. ***Disclaimer: If you are an ADN reading this, I don't mean you aren't those things***

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re. "I understand research, can interpret statistics, have an improved viewpoint regarding ethical dilemmas, and function better as part of the interdisciplinary team" -- That's the benefit of an additional amount of college-level coursework. The R.N. associate degrees and the diploma school R.N. programs have SO much nursing literally crammed into them that there is no time to do anything else. For those who've already had a career in business or the sciences, or have taken the non-nursing components of the bridge programs, I don't think that the bridge to BS RN degrees really add much. But I can see where it would be a growth experience for someone who has no college other than the coursework needed for the associate degree or the diploma. All associate degrees kind of suffer from the same deficiency: They are only 2-3 years of postsecondary ed, and do not include many electives, and do not have junior and senior year projects, independent study, etc.

Like it or not, the BS RN is becoming mandatory for hospital R.N. in most areas. Hospital administration, the bean counters, and especially the general public seem to have no idea that the exact same clinical skills are taught by associate degree, diploma school, of bachelor's degree R.N., and they wrongfully presume that having a BSN means more highly skilled than diploma RN or associate degree RN.

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Pick your state for low in-state tuition is a possibility:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/college-pricing-2013-full-report.pdf, page 17 ranks the states low to high

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re. The R.N. associate degrees and the diploma school R.N. programs have SO much nursing literally crammed into them that there is no time to do anything else.( Qoute)

How do explain nursing grads of ABSN programs then?

They also have 1 yr of nursing classes crammed into them.

On another note,as an Adn I actually went to school for 3 yrs.

1 yr of pre reqs and 2 for the nursing courses.

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