What is the afterlife like?

[EGspirit]

I have very good reasons to believe the mind continues after the body dies. Perhaps we'll get into that, if you're interested, in this string, but I'm more interested in speculating about what the afterlife would have to be like, if there is such a thing.

Is it like a dream?

Is it simply non-existence--no mind, no realization of any sort?

Is it a world, a universe of its own?

What does Morpheus say to Neo in The Matrix? "Have you ever had a dream that seemed so real? What if you never woke up? How would you know it was a dream?" ...or something to that effect.

[No Stars In My Eyes]

I can tell you what the afterlife is like; it is like NOT being HERE.

Hooray, and Hallelujah!

[khminh]

Well, of course, I don't know that I will, but it seems logical that it would be like a dream state. A mind, no longer connected to the physical world by way of a body, it would seem, would begin to imagine its environment--like we do in dreams. It seems to me also that every time people go to sleep, they dream. Sleep is not dead, but it's the closest we get to it while we are living--it seems.

Of course, 20% of people who are recovered from cardiac arrest report near death experiences, and these experiences seem to have a dream-like quality to them. So, that's another reason why I assume it.

And then there is the Kantian perspective. Immanuel Kant suggested we never have seen, and cannot know what the material world is like. We only know the images we create of it in our minds. So, that being true, again, I am led to believe the dream-state or the imagined reality is far more common and natural to minds than the consciousness we experience while being bombarded with input from the physical senses.

And as I have suggested with the paramecium studies, I have no reason to believe the brain generates the mind. So, I see no reason my mind will cease once my brain dies.

That's my thinking on it, anyway.

You are a lot more humble than many Christian nurses. They are literally obsessed about their eternity. If this country is a Christian country in literal sense, I think I would choose "eternal rest" than being alive with those bigots. If the mind survives independently as you theorize, I wouldn't have to worry about where I will be after I die. Before I was born, I had no clue where my mind was. I didn't even remember what I did before I got in first grade.

If that mind is a part of the ultimate consciousness, certainly it will not contain my memory when it leaves my body. Therefore, worrying about my afterlife is a waste of time.

You have legitimate concern. I hope you will find the answer.

[Beldar_the_Cenobite, CNA]

So, why value life? Why not go to Vegas and shoot a crowd of people?

Why value life? Because as organelles, we have to live. Only, we're uniquely capable of self-destruction. The human mind can overturn natural capabilities. Vegans stray from meat, even though we have Pepsin which breaks down proteins. Vegans choose to eat only vegetable based food, yet humans DON'T have the enzyme cellulase to breakdown cellulose which is found in plants. We overturn the ability to live. We choose to stay with things we cannot change, such as a bad marriage. That overturn becomes self-destruction.

We're the only species on earth capable of leaving the earth physically. Apes can't do that. Plants can't do that. We're able to solve complex numerical calculations that no other species can interpret, yet we question why not go to vegas and shoot a crowd of people? Why WOULD you want to do that? You take away families. Where in the back of our minds is that normal? The nazis did that to the jews. They broke apart families deliberately without a normal, practical cause.

[EGspirit]

The religion I was raised in believes that when a person dies they no longer have need of their physical body. The soul departs the body and goes on to another plane of existence.

So, is that what you believe?

It appears that you started this thread in order to criticize the opinions of others.

That's not true, but I will challenge the beliefs of others in order to test them for myself, to see if they can modify what I believe.

Because it's not just enough to belch out, "I believe this..." That's not good enough. Truth is rarely wish fulfillment. And even if we can't arrive at an axiom about the afterlife, at least we can find some reason to believe it exists...or start to accept that it doesn't.

If people can't rationally explain why they believe a certain way--I think they should just shut up. Even if those beliefs are religious in nature, they should be held for rational reasons, e.g., "I believe in Jesus Christ, because I feel I've had a personal revelation of his living presence based on the effect I experienced reading the Gospel record of his life and teachings." That's a rational reason to be a Christian. To be a Christian just because it's your right to believe whatever you want is puke.

[EGspirit]

Please cite your evidence based peer reviewed source for this proof you speak of and don't forget to use APA format.

Hppy

What do you think this is? School? I'm not doing your work for you. You look it up. Google discriminate learning in paramecium. Especially, read the paper by the scientists (Armus, et al) at the University of Toledo. But go one step further. Instead of being spoon fed your knowledge, gather it for yourself as I did. Buy a medical microscope and study the behavior of paramecium. Do your own experiments. Then you will know as I know that the mind does not require a brain. Moreover, then you won't be a follower, but you will know directly. And then you won't have to walk around saying, "I believe this because I was told this."

Lots of people have academic training; few have academic dignity.

[elkpark]

What do you think this is? School? I'm not doing your work for you. You look it up.

We don't think it's school. We think it's a semi-professional discussion board in which people who make specific, concrete claims of fact are responsible for providing some legitimate sources to support those claims. It's not up to us to locate sources that support your "facts," the onus is on you. It's not our job to go find support for your position. If you don't want to back up your claims, don't expect anyone to take them seriously.

[EGspirit]

You are a lot more humble than many Christian nurses. They are literally obsessed about their eternity. If this country is a Christian country in literal sense, I think I would choose "eternal rest" than being alive with those bigots.

I absolutely agree with you. The idea that I will go to heaven is like hell to me. I mean there's no way I would occupy an important place in the Kingdom of God. I know me, and that just couldn't happen. So, while I'm slaving away making burgers and fries for the better people, and doing it for eternity, as they come to the counter with their crowns that have way more jewels in them than mine; why would I want that? Eternally working in a Divine version of McDonald's? I would hope for the option of eternal rest--non-existence. I really don't need to exist that badly. One Christian told me proudly that based on my rather heretical Christian views, I might be scrubbing toilets in heaven, but at least I'd be there. If that's all God is about, if that's what Jesus died for in my case, I would choose eternal sleep, and let everyone else have the world and it's afterlife. To quote Trent Reznor, "You can have it all--my empire of dirt!"

If the mind survives independently as you theorize, I wouldn't have to worry about where I will be after I die. Before I was born, I had no clue where my mind was. I didn't even remember what I did before I got in first grade.

If that mind is a part of the ultimate consciousness, certainly it will not contain my memory when it leaves my body. Therefore, worrying about my afterlife is a waste of time.

Well said! Very well said, in my opinion.

And I have kind of thought about that, too. If we are just modalities of an overall consciousness, then when we die, we would just be like a memory to it, or maybe just stored away in its mind never to be thought of again. We would feel like we were alive, but we wouldn't be EGspirit or khminh. But then, I'm not who I was when I was 4, either. I change everyday with every new experience.

So, maybe the question is not will I live after I die, but who and what will I be? After all, I had a pretty wild dream last night, and in that dream, I didn't once think of myself as EGspirit. I was aware. I was conscious, but I had no memory, nor any reflection on this life I am living now.

You have legitimate concern. I hope you will find the answer.

Somehow, I feel as if I already have it; I just can't face up to it. It seems to be in my nature to want EGspirit to live forever, but when I think upon it more, I can barely stand myself now--how could I stand myself forever?

Perhaps I shouldn't be wishing for eternal life; maybe that's a given. Perhaps I should be wishing for my transformation.

Thanks for your comment. It has made me think.

[EGspirit]

Why value life? Because as organelles, we have to live. Only, we're uniquely capable of self-destruction. The human mind can overturn natural capabilities. Vegans stray from meat, even though we have Pepsin which breaks down proteins. Vegans choose to eat only vegetable based food, yet humans DON'T have the enzyme cellulase to breakdown cellulose which is found in plants. We overturn the ability to live. We choose to stay with things we cannot change, such as a bad marriage. That overturn becomes self-destruction.

We're the only species on earth capable of leaving the earth physically. Apes can't do that. Plants can't do that. We're able to solve complex numerical calculations that no other species can interpret, yet we question why not go to vegas and shoot a crowd of people? Why WOULD you want to do that? You take away families. Where in the back of our minds is that normal? The nazis did that to the jews. They broke apart families deliberately without a normal, practical cause.

I understand. And I agree.

[EGspirit]

We don't think it's school. We think it's a semi-professional discussion board in which people who make specific, concrete claims of fact are responsible for providing some legitimate sources to support those claims. It's not up to us to locate sources that support your "facts," the onus is on you. It's not our job to go find support for your position. If you don't want to back up your claims, don't expect anyone to take them seriously.

No, the onus is on you. Why? Because I couldn't care less if you believe the way I do, or if you know what I know. If you're not seeking answers, if you couldn't give two bits for the afterlife, or if you're a materialist through-and-through, then just ignore me. I don't have to prove anything to you. I don't even want to. I don't really want to defend what I believe. I want to know what YOU believe so that I might modify what I believe, or at least evaluate more closely what I believe.

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

No, the onus is on you. Why? Because I couldn't care less if you believe the way I do, or if you know what I know. If you're not seeking answers, if you couldn't give two bits for the afterlife, or if you're a materialist through-and-through, then just ignore me. I don't have to prove anything to you. I don't even want to. I don't really want to defend what I believe. I want to know what YOU believe so that I might modify what I believe, or at least evaluate more closely what I believe.

If you didn't care that we believe what you believe you would quit arguing the point and concede that we are all entitled to believe what we believe on the matter.

[SpankedInPittsburgh, DNP, RN]

True, If you don't care about a person's opinion why ask? Why debate the entirely un-provable and then cast dispersions when somebody gives you an answer you don't like based on "dreams" and pure speculation? Are you seeking converts or trying to stroke you ego by showing your masterful argumentative techniques which seem to never seem to convince anybody of anything?

Personally I enjoy watching these train wrecks much like folks probably used to enjoy episodes of Honey Boo-Boo. It simply could not be believed unless witnessed and is always good for a laugh.

[Susie2310]

And I have kind of thought about that, too. If we are just modalities of an overall consciousness, then when we die, we would just be like a memory to it, or maybe just stored away in its mind never to be thought of again. We would feel like we were alive, but we wouldn't be EGspirit or khminh. But then, I'm not who I was when I was 4, either. I change everyday with every new experience.

So, maybe the question is not will I live after I die, but who and what will I be? After all, I had a pretty wild dream last night, and in that dream, I didn't once think of myself as EGspirit. I was aware. I was conscious, but I had no memory, nor any reflection on this life I am living now.

Somehow, I feel as if I already have it; I just can't face up to it. It seems to be in my nature to want EGspirit to live forever, but when I think upon it more, I can barely stand myself now--how could I stand myself forever?

Perhaps I shouldn't be wishing for eternal life; maybe that's a given. Perhaps I should be wishing for my transformation.

Thanks for your comment. It has made me think.

I think that your attachment to EGspirit is the cause of the difficulties you are experiencing. You want EGspirit to live forever. It's not enough for you if the deeper self of EGspirit goes on. You want to know what happens after death and where you go to next and who/what you will be. I don't believe you can find the answers you are looking for through the intellectual mind, and this is my experience. I think that seeking out people (in person, or in books) who have found some of these answers for themselves through lived experience, if you are open to learning from people with different spiritual practices and beliefs, could be helpful. Genuine spiritual Teachers exist. I think these kinds of answers have to be found through one's own lived experience. I think you are getting caught in the intellect, and in philosophy, and I don't believe this will lead you to the answers you are seeking.