Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?
My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.
The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.
I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.
I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.
I guess A&P may be weeding courses but I really think it is more likely the physiology portion. Anatomy is straight memorization. Physiology is understanding how things work.
I saw many students complete the first semester of A&P but there was only about half the class after the mid-term of the second semester.
Yup..I agree.....if you're going to fail or crash and burn...these classes offer a perfect opportunity.
As hard as stories like Deb's and Leslie's are to believe, we need to respect that they are true, and acknowledge that. Some teacher's don't focus on the students that need it, but just pick on students to be evil.
The fact is: Both sides are correct. There are both sadistic instructors and lame students.
Do I have a ton of lame students in my class? Absolutely. Do they unfairly complain about teachers in order to try to get out of as much work as possible. Yes. In those situations, the students are wrong.
But, when the entire class fails an exam, including students who previously were pulling A's during the entire semester, then there's a problem with the teacher. And when the teacher exploits students for his wife's benefit, forcing the student's to get behind on their clinical checkoffs in order to work for her instead of attending clinicals, that's also wrong.
From my standpoint as an instructor, if a student is having a problem with something it is their responsibility to tell the instructor. End of story.
Yeah ... well. Easier said than done. When our class complained about the above mentioned problems, we were deemed "whiners."
If enough people complain....the 'whiners' become the 'majority'.
And the wheels begin to turn in their favor.
Z
I wish that was true but it's not.
When the entire class failed the final exam, it was because 20 percent of the questions were on material the class was told would not be on the exam. The instructor refused to hear the student's complaints and remedy the situation.
The students had to take it all the way to the dean, who, after a review, agreed there were problems with 20 percent of the questions on the test.
Nevertheless, since the instructor had tenure, all the dean could do was "recommend" changes.
Even with all of this controversy, the instructor has only compromised a little bit. She finally agreed to allow two "right answers" on half of the contested test questions. This helped a few students a little bit, but not much since the questions on the material which the class was told not to study remain.
So no ... the wheels are not turning in students' favor in this situation.
I REALLY, REALLY hesitated putting my story here. You see, it's kind of like old mothers telling birth horror stories to newly expectant mommies. It just scares people, and usually is not helpful or useful.
I have NO desire to scare or discourage new students/about-to-be-students from nursing school. Every school experience is not like mine, I know. But I have been around and in nursing 8 years now. And I have to say, it's not unheard-of or uncommon to hear horror stories like mine. Enough for me to say with utter conviction that some (EMPHASIS ON "SOME") instructors DO have targets and work very hard to weed them out, anyway they can.
I am a very strong person; a very stubborn one---most of you around here know this about me. That is what got me through nursing school. My tenacity and desire to be a nurse is all that had me going through the 2 years of absolute BS and horizontal passive-aggressiveness we were subjected to. If it was not perpetrated upon us directly, it was certainly something they (instructors) did to each other often enough. It did NOT help that two of them were working on advanced degrees (NP programs with their OWN clinical requirements) and very strung-out, tired and overwrought most of the time. It was unfair, considering as a returning student (most of us were), we were PAYING the BILLS, like ANY adult learner would, and very motivated. I feel we were cheated. It was all so unnecessary and I definately took my lessons and moved on as soon as was possible.
Like I said, I did not want to discourage or scare off potential nursing students. I do know it's not like this everywhere. But please, do not dismiss as "myth" what is a real experience for others. Just because you yourself have not been thorugh it, does not make it untrue. It does happen, and has for years. It's enough to make many never want to try. Like I said, it's just my stubborn, tenacious and difficult personality that kept me afloat and saw graduation. I knew several "washouts" who excelled in different programs and came back as nurses a couple years later after I graduated---so like I said, not every program is so rough.
As to number of hours I studied? I can' t count---it was a lot. We had 100-question tests every other Monday, not to mention pages of careplans and class projects thrown in there----- and those tests were intense----covering 100s of pages of material. NCLEX study books became my best friends
Also, I developed a system of rapid scanning and studying that worked for me and I scored well on tests. I learned to play their little games, and did well on care plans and class assignments. The problem was, each instructor had her own "game" and the rules changed from time to time---always a twist in there.
But I learned how to work it, and did my damndest. I am glad it's all over, that is all. If/when I ever really go back and work on a BSN/MSN (which I would like to) I will chose carefully, because never again, will I subject myself to the treatment we received in nursing school. The one RN-BSN program I tried, was more of the same sort of game-playing and such. I was not up for that, again. Particularly not with my experience and current age. Nope. If/when I do this, it will in all liklihood be ONLINE. I am a motivated and hardworking learner, and I love academics and the whole process----as long as you are straight-up with me, that is.
And one more thing to those of you who say weeding out needs to be done: I will not, nor cannot, argue that. But the process needs to be fair, consistent and reliable---not manipulative, mean-spirited, passive-aggressive and personal of nature. That is all I can say about that. :stone
Thanks so much for your post. You give good advice.
When you talk of weeding out do you mean making the program difficult and challenging enough to test fitness for a nursing career, or are you talking of setting people up for failure that the instructor may have some prejudiced opinion of lack of fitness?
We may be discussing two different things and calling them the same.
I have heard that A&P are the make and break point too. Any idea as to why that is? What is it about A&P? :balloons:
I just finished A&PI last month and am about to be finished A&PII next week. It is definitely ALOT well a whole lot of info. But its interesting and fascinating to learn the info so it makes it quite enjoyable. My strategy was to make sure I understood the info and not memorize it. So far with one week left, I can say it worked pretty darn well. Its not as bad or hard as people make it sound. :)
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
deb-
trust me when i tell you i know exactly what you're talking about. i swear some of these instructors have a sadistic streak in them. i am the farthest thing from a wuss and do not freely complain, but a few of my instructors were brutal, absolutely brutal. as an adult student, i was not to be screwed with. but for the younger ones, i saw the damage done and they DID try but were so intimidated, wouldn't dare to ask for help. truthfully, i thought all nsg programs were similiar to what i experienced. evidentally not.
leslie
If I had done it a decade sooner, I know I would have washed out. I would not have been able to stand up to it sooner in my life. Having had 10 years' military experience, the difficulties of being a military wife and dealing with long separations, etc..... and being a mom ( I was NOT going to let my son see me fail)----on my side, I was much stronger by that point. But I did see them go straight for the jugular in "weaker" people and the youngest and most inexperienced students hardly stood a chance, unless they were "liked".
When you talk of weeding out do you mean making the program difficult and challenging enough to test fitness for a nursing career, or are you talking of setting people up for failure that the instructor may have some prejudiced opinion of lack of fitness?
We may be discussing two different things and calling them the same.
We did indeed wind up talking about two different things. I was mainly trying to find out if instructors deliberately tried to weed out students deliberately, or did students weed themselves out as a natural progression through a difficult program.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Thanks so much for your post. You give good advice.
thank you. I hope it helps someone, if they find themselves in the unfortunate position some of us were to be in schools like the ones Leslie and I graduated. You just have to be strong.
z's playa
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Yup..I agree.....if you're going to fail or crash and burn...these classes offer a perfect opportunity.
Z