TL;DR - Recruiter told me they don't hire dudes. Firestorm ensues. I get a PRN job.
Recently I did an online "Talk with a Nurse Recruiter" session as I have moved to a new city and I'm looking for some PRN work. This was a fun conversation (organization name and recruiter name protected) as you can see below where I'm told that the hospital doesn't hire male RNs into women's services or NICU/SCN/Nursery.
Once I was done with this nice, but uninformed recruiter I sent off an e-mail AND snail mail copies to the SVP of the entire system as well as the president, CNO, and VP HR of the local facility. Oh boy did that set off some fun. Less than 24 hours later I had a call from a system level HR director telling me that she doesn't know what that lady was thinking and that certainly wasn't correct information. I played up how caught off guard I was by how blatantly she told me they won't hire male RNs (even if she thinks it, don't say it! especially in a recorded chat room, that's just not very smart). Also, it apparently only applies to RNs because they will consider male STs.
Long story short, ended up interviewing, shadowing, and getting a job offer because as it turns out I'm pretty awesome and the staff wanted me to join them. I may have also bribed them by offering to bake cookies, but that is totally beside the point!
It is completely illegal to NOT hire someone based solely on their gender. That is a form of discrimination. Secondly, your whole premise of explaining female/male nurses in OB to me is a moot point because you're speaking of what's happening in your area, not nationwide. There are many of us nurses and mothers who don't care on both sides of the aisle and know many who feel the same way so that's neither here nor there. I've already addressed this. No one, literally NO ONE, is arguing preference, we're discussing not hiring men in OB simply because they're men. I swear some of y'all are fake disputing that fact just to throw out y'all own preference. If that's your preference, fine, but it is not legal to discriminate based on race, sex, age, religion, etc. There are several laws (local, state, federal) to support this. Why is that up for debate?
That's not correct. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 as well as overlapping state laws define illegal discrimination as refusing to hire someone due to their religion, sex, age, national origin, or color when those factors aren't relevant to the job. When those factors can be considered due to a business related reason it's a called a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification, or BFOQ.
If a hospital has legitimate reason to believe that enough laboring moms would refuse a male nurse to make this a staffing and coverage issue, then the gender of the L&D nurses it hires is a legal BFOQ and therefore not discrimination by legal definitions.
I get that you don't want to address the potential preferences of laboring moms but, like it or not, that's what defines if this is discrimination or not. If the number of moms who would refuse a male nurse is so small that it doesn't really affect the operation of the unit then you'd be correct, a hiring preference for males would be discrimination.
I'm a clinical liason with a couple of local nursing programs, and we track the percentage of laboring moms that refuse males and it's not just a majority but a large majority.
I would agree that women should be more open to male nurses in L&D, but also recognize it's not appropriate for me or anyone else to push that decision on them.
Aggressive? I spoke facts. You keep ignoring them. you claim there's data and many of us have asked you to produce it. Each time you're asked you go down another rabbit hole but never produce this data or a link to it. You also keep skipping the subject at the root of this thread with your own personal biases that again, you have produced no supporting data which you claim exists.
What you won't do, is label me as aggressive because I'm not going along with your nonsense and asking valid questions.
Produce this data you claim exists or move along. Don't quote me anymore unless you have a link with valid info. Otherwise, you're just trying to be right for the sake of arguing to be right and I don't have time to play those games. Plus, it's deterring the thread. Go make your own thread about it, I promise I won't comment on it.
I'm not clear what you're asking, are you saying you have no reason to believe that some number of laboring moms, beyond just a trivially small amount, would feel uncomfortable with a male nurse while giving birth?
That's not correct. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 as well as overlapping state laws define illegal discrimination as refusing to hire someone due to their religion, sex, age, national origin, or color when those factors aren't relevant to the job. When those factors can be considered due to a business related reason it's a called a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification, or BFOQ.
If a hospital has legitimate reason to believe that enough laboring moms would refuse a male nurse to make this a staffing and coverage issue, then the gender of the L&D nurses it hires is a legal BFOQ and therefore not discrimination by legal definitions.
I get that you don't want to address the potential preferences of laboring moms but, like it or not, that's what defines if this is discrimination or not. If the number of moms who would refuse a male nurse is so small that it doesn't really affect the operation of the unit then you'd be correct, a hiring preference for males would be discrimination.
I'm a clinical liason with a couple of local nursing programs, and we track the percentage of laboring moms that refuse males and it's not just a majority but a large majority.
I would agree that women should be more open to male nurses in L&D, but also recognize it's not appropriate for me or anyone else to push that decision on them.
I said I didn't want to address the potential preferences of laboring moms when? I have addressed it you just chose not to read it.
Anywho, that law wouldn't be relevant because if there's a single male OB/GYN on the unit then that voids the whole premise of males on the unit.
Again, NO ONE said male nurses should be pushed on anyone. Have you read the thread? You're making assumptions and arguing things that weren't said. Why?
I'm not clear what you're asking, are you saying you have no reason to believe that some number of laboring moms, beyond just a trivially small amount, would feel uncomfortable with a male nurse while giving birth?
In 2018 the la times cited a study that said 8 percent of women Prefer male OBGYNs. 41 percent had no preference: this means that 51 percent of respondents in this study wanted women. This is for doctors not nurses. I can only imagine the percentage would be higher for nursing due to the hands on nature of the job.
I'm not clear what you're asking, are you saying you have no reason to believe that some number of laboring moms, beyond just a trivially small amount, would feel uncomfortable with a male nurse while giving birth?
Cause I didn't ask you? What part don't you understand? Again, have you read the thread? She keeps claiming most women nationwide don't want male nurses in labor and delivery and I and a few others asked her for links to her proof since she keeps claiming there are studies on it. We've been asking for them and have yet to receive them.
In 2018 the la times cited a study that said 8 percent of women Prefer male OBGYNs. 41 percent had no preference: this means that 51 percent of respondents in this study wanted women. This is for doctors not nurses. I can only imagine the percentage would be higher for nursing due to the nature of the job.
51% is not most, it's a little over half. Also, what was the sample size? You've been going on like it's 95% or something. And it's for doctors, we're talking nurses. You claimed to have studies on nurses since OP is a nurse, not a doc. ?
Cause I didn't ask you? What part don't you understand? Again, have you read the thread? She keeps claiming most women nationwide don't want male nurses in labor and delivery and I and a few others asked her for links to her proof since she keeps claiming there are studies on it. We've been asking for them and have yet to receive them.
I did provide a link and it’s being moderated. It’s from the la times in 2018 that references a study about doctors. 8 percent of women preferred a male obgyn. 41 percent had no preference. This means a little over half had a preference and that preference was a female provider. Nursing is much more hands on, so I can only imagine that the number who want a female nurse in labor and delivery is higher. Half of patients having a preference for one sex in a ward dedicated to women’s healthcare is not insignificant!
1 minute ago, NurseBlaq said:
51% is not most, it's a little over half. Also, what was the sample size? You've been going on like it's 95% or something. And it's for doctors, we're talking nurses. You claimed to have studies on nurses since OP is a nurse, not a doc. ?
Omg you think of a woman has a preference for a female doctor she’d be just fine with a male nurse? That’s ridiculous. It’s rhe intimate nature of this speciality that is the basis for such a preference.
Although no exact numbers on the prevalence of such experience sexist,findings from qualitative research studies show that male nurses and nursing students in maternity care experience instances of gender bias and reverse discrimination;these experiences cause what researchers call role strain,defined as a“felt difficulty in fulfilling role obligations”
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
People seem to be losing sight of the situation in the OP. He was told that not only do they not hire male RNs into OB, but they also don't hire them into the NICU.
Talk about disliking male RNs in L&D all you want, but there is NO reason whatsoever that a male RN couldn't be a NICU nurse. THAT is what the OP is fighting against. It's not about women's discomfort with men during childbirth. It's blatant discrimination.
I said I didn't want to address the potential preferences of laboring moms when? I have addressed it you just chose not to read it.
Anywho, that law wouldn't be relevant because if there's a single male OB/GYN on the unit then that voids the whole premise of males on the unit.
Again, NO ONE said male nurses should be pushed on anyone. Have you read the thread? You're making assumptions and arguing things that weren't said. Why?
This was your comment on the role of patient preference, maybe I misunderstood you.
Just now, NurseBlaq said:
No one, literally NO ONE, is arguing preference, we're discussing not hiring men in OB simply because they're men. I swear some of y'all are fake disputing that fact just to throw out y'all own preference.
Many of the same patients that may not feel comfortable with a male nurse might be comfortable with a male OB provider, which I get would seem to contradict their claim of feeling uncomfortable with a male RN except the MD and the RN provide two fairly different roles to the patient in the labor process.
The MD is effectively there to serve a utilitarian purpose, whereas the nurse often plays a role similar to that of a doula, and is often seeing as being a far more intimate role to the patient than that of the MD.
I did provide a link and it’s being moderated. It’s from the la times in 2018 that references a study about doctors. 8 percent of women preferred a male obgyn. 41 percent had no preference. This means a little over half had a preference and that preference was a female provider. Nursing is much more hands on, so I can only imagine that the number who want a female nurse in labor and delivery is higher. Half of patients having a preference for one sex in a ward dedicated to women’s healthcare is not insignificant!
Omg you think of a woman has a preference for a female doctor she’d be just fine with a male nurse? That’s ridiculous. It’s rhe intimate nature of this speciality that is the basis for such a preference.
I see you're being intentionally obtuse. YOU claimed this entire exchange with me and others that you had info about what women want REGARDING MALE NURSES then you come with doctors and now you're claiming to still know better. I just linked an actual article that shows no studies have been done on it and people like you actually make it harder for male nurses in the Ob/Gyn setting. Therefore, you still can't solidly say what MOST women want. I'm not wasting my time on this with you any longer.
2 minutes ago, klone said:
People seem to be losing sight of the situation in the OP. He was told that not only do they not hire male RNs into OB, but they also don't hire them into the NICU.
Talk about disliking male RNs in L&D all you want, but there is NO reason whatsoever that a male RN couldn't be a NICU nurse. THAT is what the OP is fighting against. It's not about women's discomfort with men during childbirth. It's blatant discrimination.
They don't seem to care. It's morphed into why men shouldn't be on OB/GYN units which further proves OP's point of discrimination.
This was your comment on the role of patient preference, maybe I misunderstood you.
Many of the same patients that may not feel comfortable with a male nurse might be comfortable with a male OB provider, which I get would seem to contradict their claim of feeling uncomfortable with a male RN except the MD and the RN provide two fairly different roles to the patient in the labor process.
The MD is effectively there to serve a utilitarian purpose, whereas the nurse often plays a role similar to that of a doula, and is often seeing as being a far more intimate role to the patient than that of the MD.
I'm a woman, I'm a mother, and I'm a nurse and somehow you felt the need to explain to me what's the different roles between men doctors and nurses as if I'm clueless. Really? The condescension is strong. You've done this damn near every post to me. Why? I'm well aware of what I'm saying and with over a decade of nursing experience, plus personal experience in this subject, I'm well versed in what I'm talking about. I don't need you to explain it to me as if that's going to change what I'm saying. It's almost as if it's to diminish my POV. Make it make sense. ?
MunoRN, RN
8,058 Posts
That's not correct. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 as well as overlapping state laws define illegal discrimination as refusing to hire someone due to their religion, sex, age, national origin, or color when those factors aren't relevant to the job. When those factors can be considered due to a business related reason it's a called a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification, or BFOQ.
If a hospital has legitimate reason to believe that enough laboring moms would refuse a male nurse to make this a staffing and coverage issue, then the gender of the L&D nurses it hires is a legal BFOQ and therefore not discrimination by legal definitions.
I get that you don't want to address the potential preferences of laboring moms but, like it or not, that's what defines if this is discrimination or not. If the number of moms who would refuse a male nurse is so small that it doesn't really affect the operation of the unit then you'd be correct, a hiring preference for males would be discrimination.
I'm a clinical liason with a couple of local nursing programs, and we track the percentage of laboring moms that refuse males and it's not just a majority but a large majority.
I would agree that women should be more open to male nurses in L&D, but also recognize it's not appropriate for me or anyone else to push that decision on them.