TL;DR - Recruiter told me they don't hire dudes. Firestorm ensues. I get a PRN job.
Recently I did an online "Talk with a Nurse Recruiter" session as I have moved to a new city and I'm looking for some PRN work. This was a fun conversation (organization name and recruiter name protected) as you can see below where I'm told that the hospital doesn't hire male RNs into women's services or NICU/SCN/Nursery.
Once I was done with this nice, but uninformed recruiter I sent off an e-mail AND snail mail copies to the SVP of the entire system as well as the president, CNO, and VP HR of the local facility. Oh boy did that set off some fun. Less than 24 hours later I had a call from a system level HR director telling me that she doesn't know what that lady was thinking and that certainly wasn't correct information. I played up how caught off guard I was by how blatantly she told me they won't hire male RNs (even if she thinks it, don't say it! especially in a recorded chat room, that's just not very smart). Also, it apparently only applies to RNs because they will consider male STs.
Long story short, ended up interviewing, shadowing, and getting a job offer because as it turns out I'm pretty awesome and the staff wanted me to join them. I may have also bribed them by offering to bake cookies, but that is totally beside the point!
Cultural reasons and religious reasons aren't the debate here, bigotry is the concern and bigots often times love to use culture and religion as excuses for their inappropriate behavior; and yes, psych evals are needed in those cases and maybe a few other things but I can't/won't say them here. OP's topic was being discriminated against solely because he's male and that is a problem within itself.
Thank you @NurseBlaq for keeping on that! You're 100% right on my topic and this discussion. It was never meant to move into a discussion of cultural choices, it was solely meant to focus on the inappropriate activity of the HR person and how the situation unfolded.
My dad was an L&D RN for 20 years before coming down with prostate cancer. He loved it! He had to fight for his position because he was also told that he could not work there because he is male. Texas BON felt otherwise and shortly after being turned away he got his desired position. ?
so he threatened the hospital to get the position he wanted? Jesus, have you ever thought for a second why a male may not be the best fit for the job? I mean men are paid more in every job category on earth. Even in nursing, male nurses make on average 17% more than females. but pushing women out of an area where women are preferred by the vast majority of clients is sexist????? I think it's women that are getting the crap end of the stick here.
You have a bias and it clearly shows. Fine, YOU can feel that way for YOU but you don't get to speak for most/all women.
I agree, I definitely have a bias, but I have met many women that have similar opinions as me. I don't speak for all women, nor do you. I do feel compelled to share my opinion regardless of others trashing me, because I feel obligated to stand up for all the women who feel uncomfortable with men adding their presence to one of the most vulnerable times of a women's life.
If a woman is in labor and all she's worried about is the sex of the nurse delivering her baby then she needs a psych eval.
Do you honestly believe this??? This is an incredibly offensive thing to say to women. I was just reading an article about OBGYNs that have sexually assaulted their patients. Presidential candidate Andrew Yang's wife, just came out with her story of sexual abuse by her doctor. 1 in 4 women have been raped. So many women have been the victims of abuse by men. Also religion and modesty plays a role.
I can honestly say during labor, the only thing most women are worried about is that the people delivering their babies are competent.
I would agree and disagree. Whenever I visit a gynecologist, I am asked if i would prefer a female. I say yes. Women clearly want an option, or they wouldn't ask. I just want women to feel comfortable and not feel pressure to conform in order to avoid the shame of being called a bigot. which is rich, considering it's women that are the victims of sexism, where men are clearly the victors.
so he threatened the hospital to get the position he wanted? Jesus, have you ever thought for a second why a male may not be the best fit for the job? I mean men are paid more in every job category on earth. Even in nursing, male nurses make on average 17% more than females. but pushing women out of an area where women are preferred by the vast majority of clients is sexist????? I think it's women that are getting the crap end of the stick here.
Woman here??
I'm not going to go back and forth with you because based on your previous replies, I can tell we will never see eye to eye.
As @NurseBlaq and @labordude said in previous replies this discussion was meant to focus on the inappropriate actions of the HR person.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you because based on your previous replies, I can tell we will never see eye to eye.
I agree, we wont see eye to eye. I don't necessarily think you're wrong on a logical plain of thinking. I just wanted to raise some issues, I feel are complicated. I think there are reasons the vast majority of L&D nurses are female. I believe the reasons are valid and should be discussed. I support male nurses, and work with a number of them, and I believe they are wonderful at their jobs. L&D is a sensitive area where sex plays more of a role.
Discrimination is discrimination.
This again is true. As I said in previous posts that discrimination is against the law, but I wanted shed some light on why L&D, much like a women's shelter, may benefit from a female dominated atmosphere. I may be completely wrong, and I realize men being banned form L&D is unlikely. I just wanted to raise some concerns that women may face in the future as men start to make up a larger percentage of L&D nurses. Those concerns are women's comfort and feelings of safety. More men in L&D may slowly erode the unconscious trust, women have regarding giving birth in a hospital. More women may start choosing home birth, birthing centers, and midwives. I feel there are hundreds of other areas of nursing where male nurses are better suited. That's basically my argument.
Who are you speaking to because you didn't quote anyone? I'm assuming me because of the psych eval mention.
If me, I don't care about trans men/women/gay/male/etc so long as they do their job appropriately and deliver my child(ren) per their duties and safe standards. Who someone sleeps with or what sex they identify as is irrelevant. Why should you care what they do in their personal life? It's discriminatory. Cultural reasons and religious reasons aren't the debate here, bigotry is the concern and bigots often times love to use culture and religion as excuses for their inappropriate behavior; and yes, psych evals are needed in those cases and maybe a few other things but I can't/won't say them here. OP's topic was being discriminated against solely because he's male and that is a problem within itself.
For clarity I was mostly responding to Silvernova to point out how ridiculous their line of reasoning was to have such a blanket statement that men can’t work in OB. Gender is a fluid thing in our society.
In regards to you, I still don’t don’t think that a woman needs a psych evaluation if she prefers one sex over the other. I see Silvernova as too extreme on one end and your comment of needing a psych eval for expressing a preference as the other extreme.
For clarity I was mostly responding to Silvernova to point out how ridiculous their line of reasoning was to have such a blanket statement that men can’t work in OB. Gender is a fluid thing in our society.
In regards to you, I still don’t don’t think that a woman needs a psych evaluation if she prefers one sex over the other. I see Silvernova as too extreme on one end and your comment of needing a psych eval for expressing a preference as the other extreme.
My comment regarding a psych eval is not due to a preference of not wanting a male nurse in OB, but moreso the sometimes bigoted reasons behind it. Meaning, outside of cultural/religious reasons which are understood as I said before, the bigoted reasons stem from other unaddressed mental issues which I also said I won't get into due to not wanting to deter the thread into something else.
Having said that, I agree on the ridiculousness of blanket statements.
I am a male obstetrics nurse who precepted at an obstetrical emergency department and in Labor and delivery as a senior nursing student, and just started a new grad job in L&D(thanks for the tips @Labordude!! The mosby's pocket guide recommendation and the tip to sit at eye level have both proven particularly useful:).
After the initial shock of the L&D nurses finding out this man was actually interested in the specialty, I have had an overwhelming positive experience in the field. As long as you are kind, respectful, and professional in all your patient interactions(to include simply asking permission before any exam, covering the patient whenever possible, explaining what you are doing before you do it, and just generally being a gentleman) and mindful that there are women who have been mistreated/assaulted/harassed by men, and being respectful of that fact, I think many men could excel at this specialty if they choose to.
I greet all my patients with a smile, and sometimes a handshake and try to introduce myself to everyone in the room and get them involved if I can! It is the coolest thing in the world to me to watch the look of a father being absolutely head-over-heels in love with his child when he sees her for the first time, and it is one of the high-lights of my job.
It is certainly the most challenging nursing specialty I have ever been in, and entirely its own beast in you circulate in surgery, do post-partum care, resuscitate babies in utero, provide emotional support/comfort, change positions, etc. It is hard work, and I think we can use all the gentlemen we can get in this wonderful field!
Exactly what "female space" are you speaking of? "Force entry"? You're making it sound like rape. Women have been doing intimate care and things such as catheter insertion on males for decades. How is this different? Men have just as much right to practice nursing in whatever area they desire as we women do.
But a patient has every right to decline a male to insert his hands into her private areas to do cervical checks. I had a female OB by choice with both my kids, and I hated seeing her male partner on the rare times she couldn’t see me ( the stereotype is that male OBs are more compassionate but this was NOT the case with him), but I just couldn’t fathom the notion of a male nurse while in labor or postpartum. I think it’s very normal for women to want women around them during this time, and we shouldn’t be shamed for it.
But a patient has every right to decline a male to insert his hands into her private areas to do cervical checks. I had a female OB by choice with both my kids, and I hated seeing her male partner on the rare times she couldn’t see me ( the stereotype is that male OBs are more compassionate but this was NOT the case with him), but I just couldn’t fathom the notion of a male nurse while in labor or postpartum. I think it’s very normal for women to want women around them during this time, and we shouldn’t be shamed for it.
I haven't seen anyone trying to say that individuals shouldn't have their preferences respected. My (the OP) argument is that while individual preferences exist and are respected, hospitals can't use gender as a hiring criteria. Interestingly enough, the hospital I was speaking about never gave a reason for their hiring practices, which were odd considering that male physicians and surgical technicians were fine but men as nurses were not to be hired into obstetrics or even the nursery. I always honor my patients caregiver requests, it's really easy to do that. It just doesn't occur that often and when it does, it's usually a blanket "no male providers" which is of course honored as well.
I suppose if we want to focus on whether men should be allowed to work as nurses in all specialty areas, the answer must be an unqualified yes. I am only making the statement that gender not be used as a hiring factor. Like anything else, individual patient preferences dictate sometimes that they want a specific gender caring for them, but that is not unique to the obstetric area.
I haven't seen anyone trying to say that individuals shouldn't have their preferences respected. My (the OP) argument is that while individual preferences exist and are respected, hospitals can't use gender as a hiring criteria. Interestingly enough, the hospital I was speaking about never gave a reason for their hiring practices, which were odd considering that male physicians and surgical technicians were fine but men as nurses were not to be hired into obstetrics or even the nursery. I always honor my patients caregiver requests, it's really easy to do that. It just doesn't occur that often and when it does, it's usually a blanket "no male providers" which is of course honored as well.
I suppose if we want to focus on whether men should be allowed to work as nurses in all specialty areas, the answer must be an unqualified yes. I am only making the statement that gender not be used as a hiring factor. Like anything else, individual patient preferences dictate sometimes that they want a specific gender caring for them, but that is not unique to the obstetric area.
I totally respect your perspective as a male labor nurse, and I’m sure you are great at your job and have your own reasons for being drawn to the field. However, it is an avoidable fact that labor and delivery is the only all women patient population in a hospital (the only except is trans men but I’m not sure how frequently they present to labor and delivery). I’m not saying all women have a preference for female nurses, but I bet no woman comes to the hospital and Actively wants a male labor nurse (Unless they know you personally as you’ve said). Most women, if asked, probably do have a preference for women. I just don’t think this one division can be compared to every other unit for this reason.
but as a woman who has labored twice and been so positively impacted by her labor and delivery nurses that I want to become one myself and eventually be a CNM, I thank you for all you do.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
2 minutes ago, Mommyandcareerchangertobe said:
but I bet no woman comes to the hospital and Actively wants a male labor nurse (Unless they know you personally as you’ve said). Most women, if asked, probably do have a preference for women. I just don’t think this one division can be compared to every other unit for this reason.
You would be wrong. I've worked in OB for 15 years, and most women just want a compassionate, knowledgeable, and caring nurse, and really DGAF their sex.
labordude, BSN, RN
482 Posts
Thank you @NurseBlaq for keeping on that! You're 100% right on my topic and this discussion. It was never meant to move into a discussion of cultural choices, it was solely meant to focus on the inappropriate activity of the HR person and how the situation unfolded.