"We don't hire male RNs" and other things you should never say to me

[labordude]

TL;DR - Recruiter told me they don't hire dudes. Firestorm ensues. I get a PRN job.

Recently I did an online "Talk with a Nurse Recruiter" session as I have moved to a new city and I'm looking for some PRN work. This was a fun conversation (organization name and recruiter name protected) as you can see below where I'm told that the hospital doesn't hire male RNs into women's services or NICU/SCN/Nursery.

Once I was done with this nice, but uninformed recruiter I sent off an e-mail AND snail mail copies to the SVP of the entire system as well as the president, CNO, and VP HR of the local facility. Oh boy did that set off some fun. Less than 24 hours later I had a call from a system level HR director telling me that she doesn't know what that lady was thinking and that certainly wasn't correct information. I played up how caught off guard I was by how blatantly she told me they won't hire male RNs (even if she thinks it, don't say it! especially in a recorded chat room, that's just not very smart). Also, it apparently only applies to RNs because they will consider male STs.

Long story short, ended up interviewing, shadowing, and getting a job offer because as it turns out I'm pretty awesome and the staff wanted me to join them. I may have also bribed them by offering to bake cookies, but that is totally beside the point!

[klone, MSN, RN]

6 hours ago, SilverNova said:

i don't know why a man would even want to be a labor and delivery nurse, when there are tons and tons of other nursing areas. most women I know would prefer a female nurse, and even a female OBGYN. the only reason they settle for a male OBGYN is because there are more males in that field currently, although much more females becoming OBGYNs than males now. Most women would prefer a woman in the room with they have a male OBGYN. Whenever i see a male doctor and they need to examine a privet area, they always pull a female health worker to stand in the room. Will a male labor and delivery always to bring a female in when they do an examination? All the male nurses I have met in school have no interest in labor and delivery, and when I visited the labor and delivery unit all the nurses were female.

None of our male OBs require or request chaperones when they go into a patient's room and check her or break her water or whatever. That is individual provider preference. It would be no different with a nurse.

You don't need to understand why a man would want to be an L&D nurse. They have as every right to practice whatever area of nursing they wish to practice.

edited to be more polite.

[labordude, BSN, RN]

14 hours ago, SilverNova said:

i don't know why a man would even want to be a labor and delivery nurse, when there are tons and tons of other nursing areas. most women I know would prefer a female nurse, and even a female OBGYN. the only reason they settle for a male OBGYN is because there are more males in that field currently, although much more females becoming OBGYNs than males now. Most women would prefer a woman in the room with they have a male OBGYN. Whenever i see a male doctor and they need to examine a privet area, they always pull a female health worker to stand in the room. Will a male labor and delivery always to bring a female in when they do an examination? All the male nurses I have met in school have no interest in labor and delivery, and when I visited the labor and delivery unit all the nurses were female.

There's a million reasons why I love being an L&D nurse. The only one that needs to understand them is me. As to having a chaperone person, that is always an individualized decision between me and my patient, I have no requirement to have one. Among my co-workers it's about 50/50 that have male/female OBGYNs. Plenty of those who have males PREFER to have a male. My wife's OB is male, that guy is amazing. Part of the reason a lot of men "have no interest in labor and delivery" is that they are prepared to hate it, told they're going to hate it, and/or relegated to the nursery.

It's probably blow your mind to know that I am frequently asked by people to take care of them when they come in "hey is labordude here, can he be my nurse?" and I'm always up at the top of the positive comments board. Why? Because I'm an extremely skilled, competent, caring nurse who has a passion for women and children's health. Doesn't everyone deserve to be cared for by someone like that regardless of their biological sex? I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to change patients in the past 4.5 years because someone wanted a female nurse.

Oh wait, I'm also a lactation counselor and help with breastfeeding too.

[SilverNova]

it's a controversial opinion I know. My brother is a nurse, and my husband is finishing up pre reqs for nursing school. I obviously have no issue with male nurses, and I think they're great. I do however feel sightly differently in this one area of nursing. I was reading a thread on reddit, about male L&D nurses and many discussed how they, "talk about their kids to break the ice". What if you don't have kids? I think that if you have to go out of your way to make women and families feel unthreatened by your presence, maybe it's not the best fit. The tread also talked about how the fathers would give dirty looks to the male nurses, and were usually the ones to kick the male nurse out, because they want to advocate for their pregnant wife's behalf. Legally yes, men can work as a L&D nurse, obviously. Men can choose to work in L&D if they want, or yeah, the hospital will get sued. I think there is a reason most L&D nurses are female, and I think it's for the comfort of the women and families, especially religious and multicultural families. 85% of current OB-GYN residents are women, because I think that naturally there is just a shift being made, because women and families would prefer a female. A lot of women are unhappy with their birth experience in the hospital, maybe more female OB-GYNs can make a difference, maybe not.

[labordude, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, SilverNova said:

it's a controversial opinion I know. My brother is a nurse, and my husband is finishing up pre reqs for nursing school. I obviously have no issue with male nurses, and I think they're great. I do however feel sightly differently in this one area of nursing. I was reading a thread on reddit, about male L&D nurses and many discussed how they, "talk about their kids to break the ice". What if you don't have kids? I think that if you have to go out of your way to make women and families feel unthreatened by your presence, maybe it's not the best fit. The tread also talked about how the fathers would give dirty looks to the male nurses, and were usually the ones to kick the male nurse out, because they want to advocate for their pregnant wife's behalf. Legally yes, men can work as a L&D nurse, obviously. Men can choose to work in L&D if they want, or yeah, the hospital will get sued. I think there is a reason most L&D nurses are female, and I think it's for the comfort of the women and families, especially religious and multicultural families. 85% of current OB-GYN residents are women, because I think that naturally there is just a shift being made, because women and families would prefer a female. A lot of women are unhappy with their birth experience in the hospital, maybe more female OB-GYNs can make a difference, maybe not.

Oh for sure, I respect that we have differing opinions here, we absolutely don't have to agree.

I don't have to go out of my way to make people feel not threatened by my presence. I'm just not threatening in general. I've never had a husband/partner/SO directly ask me to leave or switch caregivers so I can't speak to that. As for talking about kids or no kids, there are plenty of L&D nurses that don't have children and have no desire to so that's sort of a weird talking point or something that would be the only way to break the ice. It sounds like the views of those who were giving their input have been skewed from some experiences. It also sounds like they may not be good at connecting with people and building a natural rapport, some people are naturally better at that, but it can be learned to. I love what I do and it comes across in the quality of my work, something frequently pointed out by my patients.

Not all religious or multicultural families have the same preferences. I have absolutely taken care of many women from all around the world, even those whose cultures and religions are "known" for wanting male providers. I literally work in one of the most diverse ranked cities in the country. Am I cognizant of the available histories of my patients that may suggest that another provider might be a better choice? Absolutely. But that would go for working in any specialty. The reason most L&D nurses are female is that most nurses are female combined with some more traditional views on where men should be relative to their nursing profession. It's only relatively recently that men as nurses was more widely accepted. If all students were treated the same in every clinical experience and encouraged to seek out what they enjoy as a future specialty, I think there would be some growth, but there is still a mindset that exists in men that also says, I will leave that for someone else to do (I wrote my thesis on men in obstetrical nursing).

Here's what I also know, I'm finishing up my prereqs for med school so once all is said and done, I will make a fantastic OBGYN and since there will likely be more women than men just like my nursing jobs, it just gives me the chance to shine more.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Yes, we should all base our life decisions on the opinions of people from Reddit.

[ksola]

I'm all for gender equality and breaking down barriers. I hope we make progress in our generation towards changing attitudes towards "irregular" breaking of gender roles. Maybe when my grandchildren give birth, their nurses will be male and they'll think nothing of it.

However, I do think there is something innate about desiring a female caretaker during labor. Before the times of hospitals, it wasn't the males of the tribe guiding the woman through her progression. It was the females. Childbirth practices were passed down from women to women. L&D is the most "I am woman, hear me roar" setting I have ever encountered. It is a place where women, normally the weaker of the sexes, are at their most powerful. And also their most vulnerable. Where women come together to help each other through this exclusively female experience. It is the place where the core characteristics of our genders are glaringly obvious. For this reason, I believe, it will probably be the last corner of society to abandon gender expectations.

For the sake of nurses like you, do I hope this changes? Absolutely. If this is your passion you should be able to pursue it unencumbered. Do I think we are there yet, though? No.

[SilverNova]

Obviously I’m against discrimination, and understand you can’t ban men from being involved in labor. I do feel child birth has been a traditionally female experience, where men were not welcomed, up until the 19 century. That's the around the time when doctors started delivering babies, and only men were allowed to be doctors. Now much more women are entering obstetrics than men.

Some of the best nurses I have met have been male, so I am in no way undermining their ability to care. Buuutttt child birth is a very sensitive area. 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted. A lot of women have been in abusive relationships, and the majority of the abusers of women are men. I don’t see this ever changing, so I don’t see a perfect future utopia where men and women perfectly equal in this world. Child birth should be a safe space. I do think more and more male nurses adding their presence to L&D units, may slowly erode the unconscious trusting atmosphere of a hospital delivery room, and more women may start choosing home birth, birthing centers, and midwives to regain it.

[MSu, ADN]

My dad was an L&D RN for 20 years before coming down with prostate cancer. He loved it! He had to fight for his position because he was also told that he could not work there because he is male. Texas BON felt otherwise and shortly after being turned away he got his desired position. ?

[Silver_Rik, ASN, RN]

Ramblings

In surveys of women the preference for a female ob/gyn has been slowly increasing and is now a bit over 50% - I think suggesting that younger women prefer a woman ob combined with the increasing number of female obs. Still, almost half express no preference, and 8% prefer a male (my ex wife was one of these)

anecdotally, I was able to be present fully for labor and delivery, post partum care, and nursery during my maternity clinical in school. Also saw a gyn surgery (not c-sect). The only objection we had was one dad was very emphatic he didn’t want any male nurse or student to take care of his (wife?) and I don’t think that was him advocating for her so much as his own issues. I actually did provide some care to her postpartum and he didn’t object, and to their newborn in the nursery. And it may not be the most professional thing to get personal, but I did mention that I have 6 children as an icebreaker when I introduced myself to our L&D patient.

My wife and my maternity clinical instructor both said I’d be an excellent L&D nurse. I’m going into OR but I definitely think they’re right.

[NurseBlaq]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:09 PM, SilverNova said:

it's a controversial opinion I know. My brother is a nurse, and my husband is finishing up pre reqs for nursing school. I obviously have no issue with male nurses, and I think they're great. I do however feel sightly differently in this one area of nursing. I was reading a thread on reddit, about male L&D nurses and many discussed how they, "talk about their kids to break the ice". What if you don't have kids? I think that if you have to go out of your way to make women and families feel unthreatened by your presence, maybe it's not the best fit. The tread also talked about how the fathers would give dirty looks to the male nurses, and were usually the ones to kick the male nurse out, because they want to advocate for their pregnant wife's behalf. Legally yes, men can work as a L&D nurse, obviously. Men can choose to work in L&D if they want, or yeah, the hospital will get sued. I think there is a reason most L&D nurses are female, and I think it's for the comfort of the women and families, especially religious and multicultural families. 85% of current OB-GYN residents are women, because I think that naturally there is just a shift being made, because women and families would prefer a female. A lot of women are unhappy with their birth experience in the hospital, maybe more female OB-GYNs can make a difference, maybe not.

I had a male OB/GYN when I had my youngest child and he was awesome! I was high risk and my child was born with literally zero complications and is healthy and happy. You have a bias and it clearly shows. Fine, YOU can feel that way for YOU but you don't get to speak for most/all women. I've had male labor nurses when I delivered my other children as well and I have zero complaints. If a woman is in labor and all she's worried about is the sex of the nurse delivering her baby then she needs a psych eval. I can honestly say during labor, the only thing most women are worried about is that the people delivering their babies are competent, but most importantly, birthing healthy babies.

[babyNP., APRN]

I guess the other question in the room is- how do you feel about gay nurses in L&D? Trans men? Trans women?

It's one thing if a mother does not want a male caregiver- that is her right (and I don't think a psych eval is needed here- there are many cultural & religious reasons for wanting a certain sex caring for them- you can also see this on med-surg floors). It's another thing to blanket statement say that all males shouldn't be in OB.

[NurseBlaq]

17 hours ago, babyNP. said:

I guess the other question in the room is- how do you feel about gay nurses in L&D? Trans men? Trans women?

It's one thing if a mother does not want a male caregiver- that is her right (and I don't think a psych eval is needed here- there are many cultural & religious reasons for wanting a certain sex caring for them- you can also see this on med-surg floors). It's another thing to blanket statement say that all males shouldn't be in OB.

Who are you speaking to because you didn't quote anyone? I'm assuming me because of the psych eval mention.

If me, I don't care about trans men/women/gay/male/etc so long as they do their job appropriately and deliver my child(ren) per their duties and safe standards. Who someone sleeps with or what sex they identify as is irrelevant. Why should you care what they do in their personal life? It's discriminatory. Cultural reasons and religious reasons aren't the debate here, bigotry is the concern and bigots often times love to use culture and religion as excuses for their inappropriate behavior; and yes, psych evals are needed in those cases and maybe a few other things but I can't/won't say them here. OP's topic was being discriminated against solely because he's male and that is a problem within itself.