Was I right, wrong, or am I going crazy

Nurses General Nursing

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This happened in a new hospital halfway between london and bristol, in about 2004. I had got tired of all the agency work in A&E in London, so signed up for a 3 month contract in a general surgical ward working nights.

I had some bad experiences straight away - as in no handover on my first shift, and I confronted the hardened battle axe of a nurse who was finishing the day shift as she was about to leave the ward. She told me that all the patients were fine - and left.

But that's another story, but suffice to say, I stuck with the place for two months, and things only got worse, and I had to quit. But one incident happened, and I felt that I was the only one in the hospital who could see this problem, and to this day I still think I'm in the right, although I do have some doubt now. So here's the scenario.

Mrs Smith had cellulitis of her left calf (it wasn't her real diagnosis as I can't remember, but I do remember she did not have a particularly serious problem). Anyway, I'd been giving her the evening IV AB,s and got to know her well as she loved to chat. She was one of the more lively patients in her 6 bedded bay.

Anyway, I turn up to work (I think about 2000hrs) and I am told by the charge nurse that Mrs Smith is 'unconscious.'

I'm thinking, okay, what happened, where is she now? I'm then told she is still in the bay at the end of the ward, unconscious. I can't believe my ears. An unconscious patient, regardless of cause = unprotected airway. It all goes back to ABC. I tell the charge nurse that this can't be right, but he then explains that she's had a CT, been seen by her consultant, been seen by the medical team, and been seen by the neurological team, and they cannot find a cause, and all scans are normal.

I am told that there is nothing to do, but to leave her there.

You may not believe this, but neither could I.

I explain that this is crazy. We have an otherwise healthy 60yr old woman with an unprotected airway, at the end of the ward. The charge nurse gets a bit angry, and tells me if I'm that worried, I can spend the night at her bedside, but that's up to me, and I still have 11 other patients for the night. All I wanted was for her to be somewhere where she could be observed, as a simple aspiration and she's gone. An otherwise healthy woman could be dead in a matter of minutes. She's on no kind of monitoring, absolutely nothing.

What should I do? I contemplated walking out. I contemplated complaining to the duty nurse supervisor, but found out she was ok with this as well. I stayed for the shift.

I managed to go past her room about every 15-20 minutes - pathetic really, but the best I could manage, and every time i tried to wake her.

At about 0300hrs I tried waking her, and she woke up, asked what time it was, and seemed completely fine.

You probably won't believe this, but this is exactly how it happened. I've never seen someone suddenly go unconscious for no apparent reason, and suddenly wake up hours later absolutely fine.

I called the house surgeon and told him about her, and he was like 'why did you bother calling me?' and I told him that it was a bloody miracle she was still alive, and that he might want to assess her while she's still conscious, because who knows what could happen. He agreed to come down and do an assessment.

Anyway, I worked there a little bit longer before an even worse event forced me to quit, but I'm curious what you think. Should she have been in a monitored unit? Should she even have been intubated? Was I over reacting?

I always felt I was in the right on this one, but it seems I was the only one in the hospital who felt that way.

Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
JustBeachyNurse,

Yes, did not mention it as something quite obvious.

Got to go and bake something to de-attach myself from the another OP strange discussion. Cookies, anyone?

I've learned to not assume anyone thinks of the obvious. The path of least resistance with minimal invasive procedures is often the best course of action unless you wish to be the zebra hunter looking for attention.

Sadly I know several zebra hunters.

OP, seriously. You must be going on 110 years old. You have had such drama and randomly odd/unusual working conditions in so many different countries, I just cannot reconcile all of your experiences with a normal person's lifespan.

If I had had even half the experiences that you have *had*, I'm not sure I'd still be in the profession. Too much angst, too many moral anxieties & dilemmas.......just too many.

I'm amazed you think my experiences are too unusual to have in a regular career.

Millions of people sleep at night without mysteriously aspirating saliva or vomitus. Then place her on her side. I'm quite certain they assessed gag reflex in all the tests and scans. Not everyone unconscious has an unprotected airway.

You were wrong.

If she was lively inpatient and didn't sleep much perhaps it was simple exhaustion and deep sleep AEB all tests and scans WNL. She probably was tired and didn't get restful sleep most of her stay. No reason to monitor. No reason to move to critical care. No reason to harass q15min.

Accept that you overreacted. The hint is that NOT ONE OTHER LICENSED PROFESSIONAL AGREED WITH YOU.

Actually, there was one person that agreed with me. There was another nurse whom I began working there with, from NZ, from my home hospital, a friend, who was working that night. Didn't bother to bring her up, but yes, she agree with me.

And to suggest simple 'exhaustion' are you serious? She's so exhausted they can't get a response from her, and she's seen by a bunch of doctors and had a bunch of tests. Are you really serious? It sounds to me more like you're out to fault me simply because I'm so incredible.

But don't get me started on my brief spell modeling for 'Guess' underwear during my nursing school days. I know there is no way to convince you.

Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
Actually, there was one person that agreed with me. There was another nurse whom I began working there with, from NZ, from my home hospital, a friend, who was working that night. Didn't bother to bring her up, but yes, she agree with me.

And to suggest simple 'exhaustion' are you serious? She's so exhausted they can't get a response from her, and she's seen by a bunch of doctors and had a bunch of tests. Are you really serious? It sounds to me more like you're out to fault me simply because I'm so incredible.

But don't get me started on my brief spell modeling for 'Guess' underwear during my nursing school days. I know there is no way to convince you.

I've seen unresponsive deep sleep due to total exhaustion relative to unrestful sleep during an extended inpatient stay leading to extensive testing. Their body finally gave out most common in females especially family matriarchs used to caring for everyone else but self. So yes so exhausted they are in a deep sleep leading to minimal response to external stimuli--pupils react, intact gag reflex but minimal to no response to verbal, pain or noxious stimuli.

You accuse everyone else questioning your extensive tales posted here. I did not imply simple but a complex exhaustion and your described patient sounds like the appropriate demographic.

I'm not out to fault you because you're incredible, that is merely your perception.

Specializes in geriatrics.

OP, your posts have many of us questioning the truth in these tales. I could be mistaken, but it's hard to believe that anyone has witnessed so much drama at work.

OP, your posts have many of us questioning the truth in these tales. I could be mistaken, but it's hard to believe that anyone has witnessed so much drama at work.

What even more incredible is this is the tip of the iceberg. But this is what life is like when you spend you work traveling/temping in places around the country and world.

This really is quite normal, I'm not kidding.

How about posters put aside any prejudices about the OP and step back and look at the big picture. I say this because instead of answering the question, people are mudslinging at the OP. Ok, say this is a troll thread.........I am sure the question could be answered for those like me who wonder, 'what if that happened in my workplace?'

I cannot speak from the airway, but from my experience in hospitals (outside of nursing school) is that such a person who is unconscious would be closely monitored here. Maybe however, I am wrong, and nurses in the U.S. are trained not to care about such things. I think I would at least keep an eye on such a patient rather than hold the attitude that the OP's supervisors did - don't care about it, it doesn't matter. There have been times when the medical establishment has been wrong.

I just want to hear from nurses about what they would do in such a situation, aside from their feelings about the OP. I really want to know: how should a nurse treat their patient and respond to uncooperative supervisors? I am a student nurse who is willing to learn, however, I am not getting anything constructive out of 75% of the comments here.

Sincerely,

Parakeet

You know...........going overseas sounds quite exciting........maybe I would get more experience then passing meds and charting all day long!!!! :geek:

You know...........going overseas sounds quite exciting........maybe I would get more experience then passing meds and charting all day long!!!! :geek:

It will open your eyes. The strangest thing is, you see a number of ways of doing the same thing, and it gets to the stage that when you go to a new hospital, you ask them how to do something, and they look at you stupidly. They think you're stupid because you should know how that infusion is drawn up, or that dressing is done, but I don't ask out of ignorance, but because I've seen the thing done many ways, while they've only learned to do it the one way they learned in their hospital. I used to get annoyed at them and also felt stupid for asking, but if you go ahead and do something a way they're not familiar it can cause lots more problems in the end.

That's just one thing of many I've learned working abroad and from hospital to hospital. In London, I could easily work 4 different hospitals in one week.

I've seen unresponsive deep sleep due to total exhaustion relative to unrestful sleep during an extended inpatient stay leading to extensive testing. Their body finally gave out most common in females especially family matriarchs used to caring for everyone else but self. So yes so exhausted they are in a deep sleep leading to minimal response to external stimuli--pupils react, intact gag reflex but minimal to no response to verbal, pain or noxious stimuli.

You accuse everyone else questioning your extensive tales posted here. I did not imply simple but a complex exhaustion and your described patient sounds like the appropriate demographic.

I'm not out to fault you because you're incredible, that is merely your perception.

I've seen this happen, too. She got a head CT and everything. Her family was upset, and we didn't have a clue what was happening. About 24 hours later she wakes up, very groggy, but A/Ox4, everything equal on both sides.

I believe she was in her late 60s/early 70s, and she had eight children, two still lived with her, and another one was homeless and a drug addict. She and I were talking about the whole ordeal a couple of days later, and she said she didn't think she had slept more than 4-5 hours a night since she was 20 years old!

Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
I've seen this happen, too. She got a head CT and everything. Her family was upset, and we didn't have a clue what was happening. About 24 hours later she wakes up, very groggy, but A/Ox4, everything equal on both sides.

I believe she was in her late 60s/early 70s, and she had eight children, two still lived with her, and another one was homeless and a drug addict. She and I were talking about the whole ordeal a couple of days later, and she said she didn't think she had slept more than 4-5 hours a night since she was 20 years old!

And this is what I'm referring to kind of a female rip van winkle syndrome. Too busy to take care of self, gets ill, fights it until pure extreme exhaustion sets in and the brain takes over. 12, 24, 36 hours of sleep feels like their usual 5 or 6.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
It will open your eyes. The strangest thing is, you see a number of ways of doing the same thing, and it gets to the stage that when you go to a new hospital, you ask them how to do something, and they look at you stupidly. They think you're stupid because you should know how that infusion is drawn up, or that dressing is done, but I don't ask out of ignorance, but because I've seen the thing done many ways, while they've only learned to do it the one way they learned in their hospital. I used to get annoyed at them and also felt stupid for asking, but if you go ahead and do something a way they're not familiar it can cause lots more problems in the end.

That's just one thing of many I've learned working abroad and from hospital to hospital. In London, I could easily work 4 different hospitals in one week.

Just to be devils advocate.....I have worked at different facilities all within the USA. The facilities in one part of the US were somewhat different than the facility in the other part of the US.....however basic life saving and assessment were consistent.

Now without knowing more about this patient it is impossible for me to make any assessment about her airway or LOC....you report that her airway was compromised....compromised how? what was her sat? Were her respirations sonorous in nature? Did she seem in resp distress?

Not all patient with decreased LOC have a compromised airway. There are many who are so obtund that they do not awaken however they are able to protect their airway and have a positive gag and are able to handle this secretions....which is an indicator that the airway is not in danger however the patient would bear watching. If the patient has a positive gag even an oral or nasal airway is contraindicated....so your coworkers or person in charge are correct in their treatment.

It is difficult for many who read these posts to believe that you have run into this many unusual cases and patient stories/histories.......however....that you travel and travel not only to different facilities but different countries so it is entirely possible that you have witnessed these varied extreme cases.....however.....it does not always mean that you are the only correct/competent care giver in the room filled with educated professionals

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