Violence towards nurses in UK

Silverdragon102, BSN · Aug 3, 2005

First time poster. Hi.
I'm a mature student about to start training as a nurse, and the incidence of violence from patients/families/visitors/chavs has started to bother me lately. I'm most definitely not a violent person, but neither am I a turn the other cheek type of guy, and while I am not advocating hitting people for no reason, the law of the land is such that you are allowed to defend yourself (within reason) if attacked. Yet I have spoken to nurses, male and female, who tell me that if they dared defend themselves if attacked, they would be suspended and probably sacked.
So what is a nurse supposed to do if assaulted? Curl up in a ball and hope their attacker gets bored and doesn't injure them too much (or kill them)? Beg for mercy? Ask them to stop hitting until security turns up? Or are we allowed, as British law says, to fight back - and even hit first - if we genuinely feel in danger?

each hospital will have their own policy on dealing with violent people how ever they are and the government is big on NO TOLERENCE but unfortunately you don't see many cases in court of attacks on nurses. I have nursed for over 19 yrs and thankfully haven't seen any physical violence but have seen cases of verbal abuse. The best thing is to try and get out of the situation and walk away. Ring security and management and hopefully they will be removed. I would not recommend fighting back as you are at risk of suspension even if its not your fault.

letina · Aug 3, 2005

Hello and welcome to allnurses :)

Violence towards nurses is something we are all acutely aware of and you are right to be concerned. We are often at the 'front line' and whilst the majority of patients/families treat us with the same respect and consideration that we give to them, there will always be some who are confrontational, for whatever reason.

I'm not sure about other areas, but where I work, we are given 'Conflict Resolution' training. Part of this involves educating us on the legalities of our actions if we find ourselves in a situation.

It's a sign of the times unfortunately

Temujin · Aug 3, 2005

Many thanks for the speedy replies. I wonder if what it needs is a nurse - hopefully not me :) - to be suspended for defending themselves and them taking it right to the top (European Court of Human Rights or what have you).

I fully understand what you're telling me, and indeed the nurses I've spoken to back up what you say, yet the law of the land is just that, and I find it difficult to believe that the NHS/trust, or whoever, are allowed to contravene the law and what seems to me to be a basic human right - the right to defend oneself from harm. There are times and situations when escape is impossible (or seems so), and also, for instance, I would not be prepared to watch a colleague beaten while I stand by and wait for

security/police to arrive and help out.

Of course I accept that people's fear of losing their job is a powerful deterrent to taking any action against their employer, even if they feel themselves in the right. I just wonder if that fear is what the "management" are relying on.

Thanks again.

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Aug 3, 2005

hello, and welcome to the family of allnurses. best wishes to you. :)

safewaygreenbox · Aug 4, 2005

First time poster. Hi.
I'm a mature student about to start training as a nurse, and the incidence of violence from patients/families/visitors/chavs has started to bother me lately. I'm most definitely not a violent person, but neither am I a turn the other cheek type of guy, and while I am not advocating hitting people for no reason, the law of the land is such that you are allowed to defend yourself (within reason) if attacked. Yet I have spoken to nurses, male and female, who tell me that if they dared defend themselves if attacked, they would be suspended and probably sacked.
So what is a nurse supposed to do if assaulted? Curl up in a ball and hope their attacker gets bored and doesn't injure them too much (or kill them)? Beg for mercy? Ask them to stop hitting until security turns up? Or are we allowed, as British law says, to fight back - and even hit first - if we genuinely feel in danger?

I don't think you would get away with 'hitting first'. At the first sign of trouble that concerns me I get up both security and the site manager....don't forget to document document document and incident forms. If you know you will be looking after a threatening patient at the start of the shift fill in an incident form and get to to your senior straight away.

What annoyed me the other day was when I found out (manual handling training day) that (in my trust) if you are walking with a patient and they fall forwards and you try and prevent them but you injure yourself in the process you are not covered, as policy is to let them fall - can you imagine that!!!!

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Aug 4, 2005

Hi,

Welcome to allnurses.

I have just recently experienced a patient being verbally aggressive and throwing a drinking glass at me, I am convinced if he could walk i would have been struck. This incident totally took me by surprise and I was very shaken and upset. Unfortunatly i was the most senior nurse on duty and I had no support and didnt know my rights. I experienced 9 days of trauma from this incident and was the victim of patient and relative bullying. Eventually i had help from the union and in turn the trust acted in support. I am now working with a team of workers from occupational health to set up a support system to ensure if and when this sort of situation happens again that there are protocols and guidelines in place so that the victim knows where to go and what support is available.

The patients charter which was implemented in the late 80's early 90's did wonders dor the rights of the patients and their relatives but unfortunatly did nothing for the hospital staff, and it was very much considered that we should put up with just about anything the patient had to throw at us. There is lots of work going on in different trusts to protect the workers but still very much in it's infancy.

Every trust should have a violency policy. Fortunately (outside A&E depts) I believe the incidents of violent attacks on nurses are rare. Most occasions you can predict when a patient is going to behave badly and can use other skill to defuse the situation.

I wish you every luck with your career :) and remember like I am doing you can turn most negative experiences into positive ones providing you get the right support.

kay :)

Temujin · Aug 4, 2005

Hi

And thanks for all replies (and welcomes :) so far).

Safewaygreenbox (good name!!) Everything I say about fighting back is as a last resort. The "hit first" scenario is, for instance, someone running at you out of the blue who looks as if he, or she, is about to hit you. You may be alone, you may be in a confined space and unable to escape. Escape would always be the first option.

As for not helping falling patients, it beggars belief. My guess is that most of us would automatically try and stop anyone from falling. This strikes me as a case of management/insurers trying to avoid paying out all costs.

madwife2002 (Kay) - a scary story and I really hope you're over it now.

I do hope I don't come across as someone just looking to hit out. I accept there are times when, as a mental health nurse, I might be assaulted by a patient (although it's no guarantee, I am a large male and so some might think twice before doing so). In 99% of these cases I believe I would be prepared to take it without hitting back. Yet I am also sure that if I felt my life, or that of a colleague, was seriously threatened, then even at the risk of losing my job, I would take pre-emptive action (again, I would if possible restrain first, and hit only as a very last resort - moreso if it is a patient rather than a violent relative). It is alright bosses/government making noises about how it is unnacceptable to attack staff, but in the same breath to deny their own staff the ability to defend themselves makes it all seem very half-hearted.

Geeg · Aug 4, 2005

Hi from California. I am wondering if any nurses have filed criminal assault charges where warranted? Nurses are citizens, with rights, I guess......I understand that there would be little if any backup from hospital officials and quite a backlash.

safewaygreenbox · Aug 5, 2005

Never heard of any :cool:

mattsmom81 · Aug 5, 2005

Nurses in the US are trained in 'takedowns' if necessary (in high risk areas) but we would never be supported if we were to do anything more than protect ourselves. Striking them is not an option ...we would lose our job and likely our license.

These patients' attorneys would likely be able to make cases for temporary insanity or delirium/dementia due to hospitalization/meds, etc...so most nurses do not bother to file charges I'd wager. I'd like to see more charges filed, and a law making it a felony to assault a nurse.

I did call the police once...on an alert cognizant jerk who just punched a male nurse because he wanted to. But we all backed out of the room and waited for the cops to get there...he was too big and too violent for us to deal with further.

bettyboop · Oct 15, 2005

We are supposed to have a zero tolerance to any form of abuse verbal or physical, in my hospital.

There are signs every were saying abuse of any kind will not be tolerated and if a pt is abusive prosecution may follow.... yeah right!!!:angryfire

Have been subjected to several physical attacks while on duty, especially on acute medical wards by elderly Pt's, get little or no back up from managers or trust.

In 1 incident an 88 yr old pt threw a nebuliser machine through the window, held a plastic knife to another Pt's throat when security arrived they found it highly amusing until pt grabbed the security guard the the short and curlys and punched and kicked him. After eventually getting this yr old back to bed turned my back for a second (bad mistake) and she grabbed my hair and smashed my head onto a commode chair, knocking 4 teeth out:o

The trust wouldn't even pay for dental work as I am private said I would have to wait and be treated by the hospital dentist:angryfire

This was the last of many incidents on the medical wards I left just after.

Happy to say had no further physical attacks but still get the odd verbal attack. Aslo have a lovely set of venners:D

gale