vent about other nurses attitudes

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 27, 2012

Please try to understand how difficult it is to see how you can learn how to be a nurse when almost 100% of the actual job is the physical, hands on assessment and treatment of living breathing people, that it is confusing that you are trying to learn it without ever touching one until the end. If this ends up turning out OK.....only time will tell.

I can tell you that I have found the online grads awkward in tense, emotional patient situations, reticent to be involved with the patient and need strong evidence to learn how to interview (admit) patients and be involved in bedside care. They need to be taught a larger amount of basic nursing skills and tend to stick pretty close to the computer. They require strong leadership and guidance to achieve the interpersonal; skills to deal with patients and their families

You have to admit that a profession that depends so much on being "hands on" the concept that you can learn how without being hands on is tough to wrap one's head around the concept. I understand if you are already a RN and going for your BSN that sitting in lecture isn't necessary, but if going for you NP....I'd like you to be diagnosing and treating a real person and not a dummy in a sim lab. I have a friend who is going for her Doctorate.....she is researching the loss of "instinct" and "common sense" due to hands off training and sim labs and then impact to the profession.

I am very curious.....and you don't have to answer, why did you choose an online program?

I wish you the best.:loveya:

OneFlyNurz, MSN, RN · Jan 27, 2012

Basic nursing skills which are taught during the LPN program which most of the Online RN students completed? Interpersonal skills necessary to be able to interact with patients and families? NOT sitting in a lecture is HARD!!!! Many students don't even make it to the end, which is actually not a TEACHING experience but a TESTING of skills, critical thinking and the nursing process! Therefore, where did the online students acquire these skills for passing this TEST at the end? I think for a few years to come the nurses that completed traditional programs YEEEEEEAAAAAAARRRRRRSSSSSS ago will understand this better, but obviously right now they remain closed minded. If nobody else would like to answer the question asked by the above responder, I chose the distance learning route of obtaining the RN title because LIFE will not give me enough time in a day to be able to commit specific times to sitting in a classroom! It's not for everyone, you have to want it bad enough because it's easy to put the book away and say i'll come back to it later, so one has to be dedicated. I can't speak for all the nurses you have come in contact with that you describe as needing more training once they are thrown to the wolves, but I can attest only to my background and the nurses I've met who completed a distance RN program.....I can't WAIT to be thrown to the wolves so I can represent my education, training and hard work well. I appreciate being able to complete my studies in this way, so unless colleges start offering courses at midnight when the kids are asleep, I will be completing my studies online!

OneFlyNurz, MSN, RN · Jan 27, 2012

PS: ALL new grad nurses require strong leadership and guidance....not to be swallowed whole by the wolves, who expect them to perform and exhibit the same 20 some odd years of experience as their superiors!

OneFlyNurz, MSN, RN · Jan 27, 2012

PinkFluffyBunny, u don't have to explain jack!!! Refer the people with questions to your state's BON and the NLN, maybe they can answer the questions better. Your only concern is that u bear the same letters at the end of your name, and you worked damn hard for it!

BostonNurse2876 · Jan 27, 2012

I don't find online grads awkward and tense at all. My friend graduated a 4 yr college with her BSN and had never even placed a foley in clinical. My instructors in LPN school tried to get us as hands on as we were allowed to be. I work in home care now and am very much hands on, have very strong assessment skills and do a ton of patient teaching/planning and I was doing this all before going back to school for ASN online. This, for me was the only way to get it done. I have a huband that works very long hectic hours and 2 children. One middle school, the other 4th grade with special needs so this was my only option.And since I would like to further my education and eventually become Oncology certified or CCRN I had to get the RN after my name.Not to say I am not just as knowlegable as the RN's I work with, I am sure they have donw some things that I have not, but there are many that have gone to brick and mortar schools and have sat behind a desk so long they have lost all of their skills. Some even lack common sence and I am surprised they even passed the boards. In my state (MA) once you are hired as a new grad you have to take at least a 6 week intership and shadow different nurses, get "passed off" on different skills, no matter where you graduated from. I have met many nurses that have graduated from very good programs (BC/BU) and some are great, and some I wouldn't let touch me. Depends on their ability to critically think and have good bedside manner and an ability to look at the whole picture. I never though I would be completing an online program,but I am and when people ask I'll be proud because I get many compliments on my nursing care now and I'm still an LPN.

BostonNurse2876 · Jan 27, 2012

Also, the people that are going to this online program are ALREADY nurses...it would be different if we went online and never had any clinical experience on a real patient but the majority of use take care of live patients and give injections/hang IVs/care plan/teach/wound care on a daily basis. So there lies the difference.

BeachieRN84 · Jan 27, 2012

Changed mind. Not defending. Proud to be an Excelsior RN and would be proud to have one taking care of me !!!!! :-)

Guttercat, ASN, RN · Jan 27, 2012

Esme12,
You could not be farther out in left field with your assumptions. I do not feel the need to explain myself to anyone, and in fact, I don't have to...
....I find your post to be offensive, to say the least, and somewhat ignorant. Do your research before you come on a board full of Excelsior students and graduates and insult us.

Zoiks, Beachie. Methinks perhaps you personalized Esme's post a bit in the overboard direction.

From an objective stance (meaning I don't have a dog in this fight) I found Esme's post to be thoughtful and non-judgemental.

BeachieRN84 · Jan 27, 2012

I deleted my post. I don't want to argue with anyone. I found the post to be rather insulting but that is neither here nor there--I am a RN and I passed the boards like every other RN out there. EC grads work hard for our degrees and bad and good nurses come from everywhere.

rntim49 · Jan 27, 2012

I deleted my post. I don't want to argue with anyone. I found the post to be rather insulting but that is neither here nor there--I am a RN and I passed the boards like every other RN out there. EC grads work hard for our degrees and bad and good nurses come from everywhere.

funny, I was just going to reply to that post. what is it like on the top of your game instructing new RN'S and preceptoring others with your vast level of knowledge? Insulting was an understatement. And for the record I attended brick and mortar colleges.

Medic/Nurse, BSN, RN · Jan 27, 2012

OP - from MY experience, it is to your advantage to simply not discuss your educational program with co-workers.

I did the Excelsior years back and I made the "mistake" of openly discussing it while working relief in the ICU as a monitor tech. Sure, they knew I was a good medic and had taught most all of them ACLS for several years - but, openly discussing my educational program and plans to "move up" (their words) was not a good move. I am NOT saying that there were not folks that were supportive (for most were), but you can bet that a couple were very unhappy (not sure why, it would not have any impact on them - but, I chalked it up to miserable folks want to spread misery and this was as good of a topic as any to them). And you know that those who peddle misery, really enjoy tearing anyone else down. I never discussed it after that point. Sure, my very close friends had an idea (even the ICU clinical educator was very supportive and helped me beyond my wildest dreams), but I just did not NEED any other opinions and my not giving out any info - it shuts the haters down. Period. I recommend that you consider this approach.

Some (maybe more than some, based on what I've been told) went through traditional nursing school and it was miserable, soul deadening and confidence crunching experience. Now, I don't understand an educational program that starts out overwhelming and tearing down students - but, many nursing programs operate like that. NOTE: Those of you who teach and administer traditional nursing programs that operate professionally, work to educate while instilling confidence and competence and demand excellence without destroying your students - hats off to ya! IMHO, You are likely the exception. Bless you all!

Keeping the preceding paragraph in mind - that may help explain some of the less than KIND or SUPPORTIVE reactions - they went through the "hard way" and "who do you think you are" that you get to "cheat"? Now, I may be off base - but, that's the best I can come up with for motivations. Also, there are folks that are just HATERS and nursing seems to attract more than a few - many don't directly get anything out of their vitriol, but IF they can cause anyone to LOSE or SUFFER SOME DEFEAT - well, they get off on it and feel like they are "MORE" by proxy. Maybe they feel superior - even if just for one moment - it makes the misery they cause another so WORTH IT! Yep, I said it. Overall, nursing is NOT a profession that is overly supportive to our peers. See many threads on back-stabbing, throwing under bus, etc. I know many that are NOT haters, unsupportive, s#$%stirrers, backstabbers and malcontents - but, the ones that are can really do plenty of damage regardless. All it take for evil to flourish is for good nurses to do nothing - great quote altered for audience. :)

I recommend that you quietly work through your program - you likely KNOW who is supportive and be able to count on their assistance if necessary. Otherwise, head down and mouth shut will serve you well. Once you finish and get licensed - it matters little the how/what/where/when. I have NEVER had any problems getting a job or be considered "less than" cause I did the EC route - but, perception is everything. Don't start nothing and there won't be nothing - it's none of anyone's business how you complete your education. I never bring it up, if asked I will answer - but, without explanation or apology. Period. I have assisted others that seek that route - and without exception MOST all are excellent clinicians, as a clinical license is already required for entry into the EC program. Also, I think you have to be very motivated and disciplined to do on-line or "testing out" of the EC programs - there is not set schedule - so you will get out of it what you put in it. Was it a cake walk? Well, for me - yes it was. But, ONLY because my 30 month university based paramedic program had busted my a## in more ways than I could count. Others will differ.

Imagine the surprise on the haters faces when you walk in one day as a new nurse - it will be a sweet moment. I took a few weeks off and came back as a new-grad RN in the ER/ICU - most everyone had no idea I was even in a nursing program.

Esme - I think you are amazing and really enjoy your postings and respect your opinion. However, on the issue of most RN's that do it the on-line way (at least the EC way and I know of no program that does complete RN without a clinical or prior professional license - LPN, Paramedic, RRT) being less than prepared and having clinical deficits or no interpersonal skills - I will have to respectfully disagree. Compared to nurses that do it the traditional way vs. online - I think most new nurses start out a bit rocky and if I have to choose - I think the online, prior medical professional new grad will be able to advance from novice before most traditional program new grads. Again, just my opinion - actual mileage will vary.

OP - I wish you luck and this final tidbit - you know who you can count on and trust - it's hard not to talk about your program and ask questions and seek input from co-workers - but, this is one situation where it gives others more info about you than you need to be sharing. You will not regret just closing your circle and working hard. Feel free to contact me if you need assistance/advice or a good old-fashioned pep talk - I think we are better when we treat others better and those (like me) that got a hand up, well - paying it forward rewards everyone. I like to see others reach their goals and enjoy success. I wish you luck and all the best.

Practice SAFE!