Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

[jive turkey]

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

[BostonFNP, APRN]

1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Your side was demanding valid reasons to not get vacinated. 

Read the OP,  I think you have your facts wrong.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

44 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

The pt decides of a reason is valid.

val·id  /ˈvaləd/ adjective: having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.

Simply having an opinion does not make it valid. 

[BostonFNP, APRN]

 

14 hours ago, jive turkey said:

I answered you already!

Here it is again for ya buddy:

I wouldn't tell anybody not to get it.  If they wanted to discuss why they didn't want to get....like I said 45 times I would tell them talk to their doctor and do their research. I would show empathy and listen.  If after that they decided not to and died I'd express condolences and offer support like normal.  

What you tried to do is create a story where I talked somebody out of doing it and ended up being guilty for them dying.  Wouldn't happen bro. Save it. 

THAT'S YOUR ANSWER

Take a screen shot so you don't have to ask me for the answer again

No, you changed the question and answered that. I didn't change your silly hypothetical question that didn't apply to me. So don't be a coward (in your words) and answer the question. I'll make it really simple: what do you say to someone that didn't get vaccinated (for one of the "valid" reasons proposed on this thread) and ended up dead or killing a family member?

[MunoRN, RN]

50 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Are you suggesting a pt of sound mind refusing is the same as a pt in withdrawal?

I'm saying when a patient refuses a medication, their reasoning can be valid, or possibly delusional and not tethered to reality.  

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

1 minute ago, BostonFNP said:

val·id  /ˈvaləd/ adjective: having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.

Simply having an opinion does not make it valid. 

Oh ho! Wanna play the definitions game? I didn't have to go far. The other two definitions are:

VALID (adj):

2) legally binding due to having been executed in compliance with the law.

3) legally or officially acceptable."

-shouldn't play the definition game unless you give full disclosure. A valid reason, according to these two definitions is a legally binding reason or officially acceptable reason. The pts decision makes their choice valid AND their reason is valid to THEM because it is reasonable, TO THEM. 

-two doctors can have different opinions. Why is that possible? Because their opinion is reasonable (and one would hope scientifically rational) to THEM and their personal experience. 

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

1 minute ago, MunoRN said:

I'm saying when a patient refuses a medication, their reasoning can be valid, or possibly delusional and not tethered to reality.  

Correct. However, if the pt is delusional, they cannot be informed. Thus informed consent is impossible. A person of sound mind can be informed. AND they MUST give their consent as well. 

[toomuchbaloney]

3 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Oh ho! Wanna play the definitions game? I didn't have to go far. The other two definitions are:

VALID (adj):

2) legally binding due to having been executed in compliance with the law.

3) legally or officially acceptable."

-shouldn't play the definition game unless you give full disclosure. A valid reason, according to these two definitions is a legally binding reason or officially acceptable reason. The pts decision makes their choice valid AND their reason is valid to THEM because it is reasonable, TO THEM. 

-two doctors can have different opinions. Why is that possible? Because their opinion is reasonable (and one would hope scientifically rational) to THEM and their personal experience. 

You are grasping at straws and straws aren't a very good foundation upon which to build a defense. You seem incapable of understanding the nuance of this language.  

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

1 minute ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You are grasping at straws and straws aren't a very good foundation upon which to build a defense. You seem incapable of understanding the nuance of this language.  

You seem incapable of understanding the concept of "frames of reference."

[MunoRN, RN]

1 minute ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Correct. However, if the pt is delusional, they cannot be informed. Thus informed consent is impossible. A person of sound mind can be informed. AND they MUST give their consent as well. 

Where are you getting the people of sound mind are being vaccinated despite their refusal?

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

Just now, MunoRN said:

Where are you getting the people of sound mind are being vaccinated despite their refusal?

Nice pivot. That's not the issue. The issue is "what is a valid reason to refuse vaccination." Ties into mandates and arguments of legality etc. 

[toomuchbaloney]

12 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Where are you getting the people of sound mind are being vaccinated despite their refusal?

They are imagining and fabricating that to justify their vaccine refusal or hesitancy.  It is the epitome of dishonesty in a discussion. 

[MunoRN, RN]

13 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

"Here sir I have this medicine for you." 

"I don't want it. I refuse."

"That's fine sir, do you..."

"I know all about it, you people told me all about it. I don't want to hear anymore I don't want it. I refuse."

"Well sir I understand that but unless you give me A VALID reason I'm afraid you are required to take this medication."

-the future of nursing. 

If you're referring to mandates for nurses then no, that's not the "future of nursing", it's the foundation of nursing.

Modern nursing in large part started with Florence Nightingale, who was at least as well known as a statistician as a nurse.  One of her main impacts on healthcare was to identify causes of avoidable harm to patients, and to advocate for reducing that potential harm.  The same basic concept is why nurses are required to be vaccinated.