Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

[jive turkey]

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

As far as the just in case, let's agree we misunderstood each other and drop that. 

I never said there was or that I would present articles that would advise against vaccinating.  

I'm going to speak more plainly and less politically correct to help make sure I get the point across as I've explained my concerns before:

For someone that has had COVID already I don't see conclusive evidence suggesting the vaccine will do dramatically better than natural immunity.  I see some studies that say it does. Others that don't.  All authors suggest getting it.  Of course they do taking the CYA approach. 

Reinfection is rare (even your favorite source the CDC says that)

I'm not finding numbers on how many reinfected people are hospitalized and dying. 

You have provided articles yourself which suggest that vaccinating results superior protection from infection, illness or death.  You simply don't want to believe or trust the language.  Why?

[Alex Kowalcyk]

The human body's natural state is one of health. The body is wise and has the ability to heal itself. Illness is a natural, temporary means of expression which oftentimes restores an individual to a needed balance.

Many illnesses have an emotional root, which may require comprehension by the individual for a lasting cure. Allopathic means are effective at drastic life-saving interventions and manipulations (chemically and surgically), but may only provide a temporary patch or crutch, without addressing the root cause of illness. Allopathic means have extremely limited effect for curing chronic conditions. Many cures have been intentionally suppressed over the last two centuries, and the curriculum taught in medical schools has been censored and infiltrated by powerful interests with ulterior motives, mainly those beneficiaries of pharmaceutical profits.

Ultimately, since healing power lies within each person, beliefs play a huge role and the patient's expectations for gaining a hopeful recovery or cure are shaped and guided by those in healthcare institutions. Those in healthcare institutions are highly trusted and so their words weigh heavily. Many patients are negatively affected by the negative suggestions from doctors and nurses. The power of suggestion cannot be overlooked, as it is apparent most of the nurses on this board are probably victims of it also (mesmerized by television). The act of categorizing and labeling illnesses can be detrimental, as through suggestion it provides a blueprint for symptoms and illnesses that a patient might then manifest. When you realize the power for healing lies within, there will be no need for any drugs, and no need to pay for health insurance. 

I have earned the ability to claim expert status as a nurse; I am a CCRN, with IABP, ECMO, and VAD experience, have been an educational resource for other nurses on my units, I easily command the respect and trust of doctors and surgeons, and intensivists as well as other colleagues have noticed that patients seem to get better when I am their nurse. Most of my positive feedback has been from patients themselves and family members.

 

[jive turkey]

1 minute ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You have provided articles yourself which suggest that vaccinating results superior protection from infection, illness or death.  You simply don't want to believe or trust the language.  Why?

You can't tell me what I want to believe. You can't speak to my feelings unless I tell you what they are.  Never said I "don't want to believe". 

I've acknowledged more than once there's articles that suggest vaccination provides more immunity.... and articles to the contrary.  Even the ones I shared. 

Do you have access to information showing high incidence of reinfection, hospitalization, and death from reinfection?

[guest1163268]

2 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

As far as the just in case, let's agree we misunderstood each other and drop that. 

I never said there was or that I would present articles that would advise against vaccinating.  

I'm going to speak more plainly and less politically correct to help make sure I get the point across as I've explained my concerns before:

For someone that has had COVID already I don't see conclusive evidence suggesting the vaccine will do dramatically better than natural immunity.  I see some studies that say it does. Others that don't.  All authors suggest getting it.  Of course they do taking the CYA approach. 

Reinfection is rare (even your favorite source the CDC says that)

I'm not finding numbers on how many reinfected people are hospitalized and dying. 

Why not buy a fake vaccine card to CYA. I read somewhere that there's a lot of them floating around New Orleans which came from China. 

What bugs me about you folks is that you think that everyone is as trivial as you are so you project your ignorance for validation. 

We read, a lot! We have a secret society that enables us to spot serious people! Do you really think that the professionals at the CDC have the time to faff around like the idiots on Fox noise and OAN or whatever silly sources you get your information from. 

I say do as you please just stay away from people so you don't endanger them. Companies get sued to bankruptcy for contaminated aspirin or powder etc, but all the people involved in a pharmaceutical company with all the degrees and collective knowledge, have conspired to kill people for profit and the entire world's govt are condoning this? 

Double bollocks and utter nonsense to your brand of logic! 

[jive turkey]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:08 PM, Alex Kowalcyk said:

Many cures have been intentionally suppressed over the last two centuries, and the curriculum taught in medical schools has been censored and infiltrated by powerful interests with ulterior motives, mainly those beneficiaries of pharmaceutical profits.

Please share anything you have about this.  Not beberte I disagree but so people can see your not just throwing conspiracy theories out there.  So many people I talk to have this cult like attitude about this vaccine

[toomuchbaloney]

5 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

You can't tell me what I want to believe. You can't speak to my feelings unless I tell you what they are.  Never said I "don't want to believe". 

I've acknowledged more than once there's articles that suggest vaccination provides more immunity.... and articles to the contrary.  Even the ones I shared. 

Do you have access to information showing high incidence of reinfection, hospitalization, and death from reinfection?

I can tell you that it appears that when confronted with expert opinion, evidence and data that contradicts your concern, you simply ignore it and double down on the concern.  It appears that you want evidence to convince you to change a belief or concern that was formed in the absence of evidence to support it.  

Do you have access to information showing that vaccination in a person with previous infection should have concern about vaccinating? If so you should present it. 

I have already provided credible citations to support vaccination after infection.  Now it's your turn to show us why people like yourself shouldn't vaccinate after infection. 

[toomuchbaloney]

16 minutes ago, Alex Kowalcyk said:

The human body's natural state is one of health. The body is wise and has the ability to heal itself. Illness is a natural, temporary means of expression which oftentimes restores an individual to a needed balance.

Many illnesses have an emotional root, which may require comprehension by the individual for a lasting cure. Allopathic means are effective at drastic life-saving interventions and manipulations (chemically and surgically), but may only provide a temporary patch or crutch, without addressing the root cause of illness. Allopathic means have extremely limited effect for curing chronic conditions. Many cures have been intentionally suppressed over the last two centuries, and the curriculum taught in medical schools has been censored and infiltrated by powerful interests with ulterior motives, mainly those beneficiaries of pharmaceutical profits.

Ultimately, since healing power lies within each person, beliefs play a huge role and the patient's expectations for gaining a hopeful recovery or cure are shaped and guided by those in healthcare institutions. Those in healthcare institutions are highly trusted and so their words weigh heavily. Many patients are negatively affected by the negative suggestions from doctors and nurses. The power of suggestion cannot be overlooked, as it is apparent most of the nurses on this board are probably victims of it also (mesmerized by television). The act of categorizing and labeling illnesses can be detrimental, as through suggestion it provides a blueprint for symptoms and illnesses that a patient might then manifest. When you realize the power for healing lies within, there will be no need for any drugs, and no need to pay for health insurance. 

I have earned the ability to claim expert status as a nurse; I am a CCRN, with IABP, ECMO, and VAD experience, have been an educational resource for other nurses on my units, I easily command the respect and trust of doctors and surgeons, and intensivists as well as other colleagues have noticed that patients seem to get better when I am their nurse. Most of my positive feedback has been from patients themselves and family members.

 

You clearly aren't an expert in pandemics, virology, public health or coronaviruses...as evidenced by your remarks in these threads. 

[jive turkey]

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I can tell you that it appears that when confronted with expert opinion, evidence and data that contradicts your concern, you simply ignore it and double down on the concern.  It appears that you want evidence to convince you to change a belief or concern that was formed in the absence of evidence to support it.  

Do you have access to information showing that vaccination in a person with previous infection should have concern about vaccinating? If so you should present it. 

I have already provided credible citations to support vaccination after infection.  Now it's your turn to show us why people like yourself shouldn't vaccinate after infection. 

I'll take that as a no.  You DON'T have access to that information.  I'm sure you looked and didn't find any like me. When you can do that,  holla!

Once again you tried to speak to my thoughts and are dead wrong.  I fully support vaccines like Polio, MMR, varicella, Hep A/B, tetorifice to name a few. The results are clear, the jury isn't out on those. 

There's articles that support getting the vaccine to supplement natural immunity

There's those that don't so much.  

Reinfection is rare let alone hospitalization from it

Thats all I have left to exchange with you too much baloney I do appreciate your feedback. 

 

[toomuchbaloney]

11 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Please share anything you have about this.  Not beberte I disagree but so people can see your not just throwing conspiracy theories out there.  So many people I talk to have this cult like attitude about this vaccine

Have you noticed that the "cult like attitude" about the vaccines often centers around concerns about future vaccine side effects, distrust of the public health experts, and the myth/fantasy that natural immunity can lead to herd immunity or that the previously infected should be concerned about vaccinating.  None of those attitudes are supported by science, evidence or expert analysis...they are outside of the expected norm and the science...the rationale for not vaccinating more closely resembles "cult like attitudes" than does following the science and experts. 

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I'll take that as a no.  You DON'T have access to that information.  I'm sure you looked and didn't find any like me. When you can do that,  holla!

Once again you tried to speak to my thoughts and are dead wrong.  I fully support vaccines like Polio, MMR, varicella, Hep A/B, tetorifice to name a few. The results are clear, the jury isn't out on those. 

There's articles that support getting the vaccine to supplement natural immunity

There's those that don't so much.  

Reinfection is rare let alone hospitalization from it

Thats all I have left to exchange with you too much baloney I do appreciate your feedback. 

 

I supported my stance.  You have not supported your beliefs. 

It's a shame that you have no evidence or data to exchange which supports and validates your concern. Instead, you seem to just be walking away from attempts to discuss your evidence and basis for not vaccinating. 

[guest1163268]

Tell you what. When you get ill, don't go to Drs or hospitals for tx, because you can't trust them or the science! You get a tooth ache, try a home remedy. You can't trust these people with their fancy science and faked degrees. 

If you do, you are a hypocrite! 

Almost every single thing around you is a result of science! The coffee you drank this morning, science! From the fertilizers to the transportation to the shelf, all science. Logistics and analytics to produce it and get it to you cheaply! Science! 

It gets exponentially harder the more complicated the product becomes. Many people are involved in many specialized areas and they all work hard and have lots of things that they don't want to lose, so they do due diligence on every aspect of their lives, incl their work! 

Not everyone is as gullible as you lot! This isn't an apricot that you buy from a farm stall at the side of the road. Centuries of knowledge from Chemistry to physics and biology culminates in the production of these vaccines. All tried and tested by multiple people in multiple countries and cultures and all reproducible, just like a recipe! 

But no, you boobies ignore all of this because your egos are so fragile and insecure, that you need validation so badly that you are willing to kill yourself, your friends and family and co workers to prove your point! 

And you think that we don't see through you! 

[jive turkey]

1 minute ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I supported my stance.  You have not supported your beliefs. 

It's a shame that you have no evidence or data to exchange which supports and validates your concern. Instead, you seem to just be walking away from attempts to discuss your evidence and basis for not vaccinating. 

I've definitely provided information and sources to help you understand why Im not 100% convinced a previously infected person MUST be vaccinated. If they want to,  cool. If they don't,  I can appreciate why not. 

I've provided sources that support doing it, I've spoken to both sides of the coin, I've said people who had or never had the virus should definitely talk to their provider about getting it. I wear a mask in public,  keep 6+feet, avoid crowds, wash n sanitize often. 

You've been one sided on the issue.  Unlike you, I'm not making it my place to tell people only my perspective is correct.   There's not much left to discuss with you.  When you can provide that info I asked you for,  let me know.