Vaccination Mandating

nurseluckett, MSN · Sep 23, 2021

Why is the only stand vacinne mandates. I know many have COVID antibodies from COVID illnesses. Why can we have antibody testing? Research is showing natural immunity is as good if not better than vaccinated immunity.

jive turkey · Sep 23, 2021

5 hours ago, pclaybrooke said:

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I'm oddly surprised and a bit curious as to the ideas presented here. People are mentioning cases, inundations of hospitals, economic windfalls, etc. I haven't seen anyone challenge the efficacy of RT-PCR testing, nor the conflicts of interests (COIs) surrounding those tests, the COIs within the FDA and the funding they receive, or even the fact that we are testing asymptomatic people. The 2006 swineflu "pandemic" ended up being a "casedemic," ultimately due to the use of PCR testing. So, it's very difficult for me to support a governmental mandate, state or federal, to be placed on people when the analyses are faulty. I won't begin to mention the unconstitutionality of it.

If we continue to tread down this path of collusion between the pharma, medical, and governmental bodies, we will not like the outcome. The shear censorship of researchers and medical professionals to be able to even state their opinions without being shut down, is VERY concerning. giving me "thought police" vibes. For a population of professionals that "follow the science," we seem to lean towards the "sciences" that suit our personal beliefs, leaving objectivity to the back burner, ultimately allowing very important voices to not only go unheard, but purposely silenced”.

Very well said. I agree 100%.

I've mentioned it. People excuse it. The CDC gets funding from a foundation that gets money from pharma. It's not even hidden information.

I've mentioned how the CDC and pharma patented isolated SARS. That was excused as the CDC trying to keep other companies from doing it first and limiting research. Interestingly that problem wasn't solved with a mandate preventing such practice.

I've shared multiple studies showing how well natural immunity does. There's many that still insist everyone gets vaccinated regardless.

Extreme points of view whether pro or contra vaccine aren't effective at solving the problem but leave people prone to manipulation by those what will use their extreme emotional perspective to get what they want.

toomuchbaloney · Sep 23, 2021

1 hour ago, nurseluckett said:

Why is the only stand vacinne mandates. I know many have COVID antibodies from COVID illnesses. Why can we have antibody testing? Research is showing natural immunity is as good if not better than vaccinated immunity.

Vaccine mandates are not the only stand. There will likely be some testing for antibodies in some settings. Why not vaccinate and boost the natural immunity? It's safe and recommended to do so.

listless reads · Sep 23, 2021

PCR tests were created for manufacturing of sampling. You will have to read into the test to get details. But now they're being used for measuring viral loads depending on what Cycle threshold is reached. Absurdity.

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Researchers and scientists are not immune to monetary gain. So when these researchers/scientists/doctors are found to have ties with the manufacturing companies that produce these instruments, there is a severe COI.

It's so very important as to have its own field that is addressed in each study. Most glance over the names. I personally look into the names to see their affiliations.

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10 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

The constellation of findings with Covid (imaging, symptoms, labs,etc) are extremely unique to Covid.

refer to around 10:30 of this video. For something supposedly "unique" to covid, they have a hard time describing it. Weirdly enough, there was even a move to stop autopsies all together. why any research institution would want to inhibit autopsies of infected individuals is beyond me.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-020-02317-w

So my words aren't empty, refer to the introduction.

"Contrary to the initial recommendation of the German Robert Koch Institute (RKI) to avoid autopsies of COVID-19 deaths if possible [1], this institution has recently changed its recommendation and currently acknowledges the benefits and value of autopsies in the context of pandemic control."

Hope this helps to clear up confusion or maybe even gives you more questions. Questioning is at an all time low nowadays. cheers.

7 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Vaccine mandates are not the only stand. There will likely be some testing for antibodies in some settings. Why not vaccinate and boost the natural immunity? It's safe and recommended to do so.

baloney. vaccine can't "boost" natural immunity.

listless reads · Sep 23, 2021

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Extreme points of view whether pro or contra vaccine aren't effective at solving the problem but leave people prone to manipulation by those what will use their extreme emotional perspective to get what they want.

I am realizing very quickly that people on this forum are not very objective. haven't come across a single study reference -_-

Please, if you ever want to pass on useful information my way, do so. always open to sharing ideas and learning new perspectives.

toomuchbaloney · Sep 23, 2021

17 minutes ago, listless reads said:

PCR tests were created for manufacturing of sampling. You will have to read into the test to get details. But now they're being used for measuring viral loads depending on what Cycle threshold is reached. Absurdity.

This is irrelevant to the topic of vaccine mandates.

19 minutes ago, listless reads said:

baloney. vaccine can't "boost" natural immunity.

CDC MMWRMMWR

Quote

In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.

MunoRN, RN · Sep 23, 2021

21 minutes ago, listless reads said:

PCR tests were created for manufacturing of sampling. You will have to read into the test to get details. But now they're being used for measuring viral loads depending on what Cycle threshold is reached. Absurdity.

_

Covid PCR tests were created for testing for Covid in people. Like other PCR tests used prior to Covid PCR tests, they rely on amplifying the genetic material in the sample so that the test can see it. It magnifies what's there but can't create something that isn't actually there.

22 minutes ago, listless reads said:

Researchers and scientists are not immune to monetary gain. So when these researchers/scientists/doctors are found to have ties with the manufacturing companies that produce these instruments, there is a severe COI.

It's so very important as to have its own field that is addressed in each study. Most glance over the names. I personally look into the names to see their affiliations.

I would agree we should be skeptical of everything around us, that's how we get to the truth. But to assume, for instance, that PCR tests are all just a scam without any actual evidence to support that isn't useful.

29 minutes ago, listless reads said:

refer to around 10:30 of this video. For something supposedly "unique" to covid, they have a hard time describing it. Weirdly enough, there was even a move to stop autopsies all together. why any research institution would want to inhibit autopsies of infected individuals is beyond me.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-020-02317-w

So my words aren't empty, refer to the introduction.

"Contrary to the initial recommendation of the German Robert Koch Institute (RKI) to avoid autopsies of COVID-19 deaths if possible [1], this institution has recently changed its recommendation and currently acknowledges the benefits and value of autopsies in the context of pandemic control."

Hope this helps to clear up confusion or maybe even gives you more questions. Questioning is at an all time low nowadays. cheers.

I'm not sure where you're getting that I said autopsies are a reliable way to diagnose Covid. As with other viral infections, autopsies are generally non-specific. Diagnosis by clinical criteria to support a positive test is only useful in still-living patients.

You really don't understand why dissecting a body possibly full of a contagious pandemic virus might have been discouraged?

32 minutes ago, listless reads said:

baloney. vaccine can't "boost" natural immunity.

A basic foundational premise of immunology is that exposure to an antigen triggers an immune response, and that subsequent exposures produce an even more pronounced response than the initial exposure. If you're disagreeing with basic immunology it might help if you could elaborate on why you disagree.

listless reads · Sep 23, 2021

2 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

CDC MMWRMMWR

This is why conflict of interest information is very important. The CDC is making billions from Covid. Their "studies" are biased. Goes for NIH and NIAID. Very interesting that the vaccine wasn't designed to reduce infection rates and induce immunity...but is reducing infection rates. I guess an added surprise..?

toomuchbaloney · Sep 23, 2021

1 minute ago, listless reads said:

This is why conflict of interest information is very important. The CDC is making billions from Covid. Their "studies" are biased. Goes for NIH and NIAID. Very interesting that the vaccine wasn't designed to reduce infection rates and induce immunity...but is reducing infection rates. I guess an added surprise..?

I notice that your claims have no citations

Are you speaking about one specific vaccine? Do you think that the agencies that you listed developed the vaccine? Why do you believe that the vaccines weren't designed to reduce infection rates and induce immunity?

In regions with high vaccine refusal, the implementation of employer mandated vaccines will result in higher vaccination rates. That's true across the employment spectrum. Higher vaccination rates ends the pandemic sooner.

listless reads · Sep 23, 2021

5 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Covid PCR tests were created for testing for Covid in people. Like other PCR tests used prior to Covid PCR tests, they rely on amplifying the genetic material in the sample so that the test can see it. It magnifies what's there but can't create something that isn't actually there.

The threshold at which it detects that material is smaller and smaller with each cycle. anything over 35 (per fauci) is chalked up as 100% false positive. PCRs are being used at 40-45 CTs.

8 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

I would agree we should be skeptical of everything around us, that's how we get to the truth. But to assume, for instance, that PCR tests are all just a scam without any actual evidence to support that isn't useful.

There is evidence. It's in the manufacturer's guidelines. Refer to the CTs mentioned above. the creator of the PCR test was adamant that it was not to be used to diagnose.

11 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

I'm not sure where you're getting that I said autopsies are a reliable way to diagnose Covid.

I put that because you stated Covid was unique, I.e. symptoms, imaging, labs, etc. Autopsies would then be definitive because they'd actually take the lung tissue samples. but they're stating "its hard to answer" in comparison to seasonal flu.

and no. We work with the "very contagious and virulent" covid everyday. Opening a body for autopsy isn't going to increase exposures in the right setting. Investigative measures are exactly why autopsies are conducted. An infective pathogen is probably the best reason to open someone up and find out what's going on.

17 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

If you're disagreeing with basic immunology it might help if you could elaborate on why you disagree.

How can something that doesn't provide immunity in any sense add to immunity in anyway?

MunoRN, RN · Sep 23, 2021

20 minutes ago, listless reads said:

This is why conflict of interest information is very important. The CDC is making billions from Covid. Their "studies" are biased. Goes for NIH and NIAID. Very interesting that the vaccine wasn't designed to reduce infection rates and induce immunity...but is reducing infection rates. I guess an added surprise..?

Immunizations aren't intended to provide immunity? That's been the basic premise of pretty much every vaccine in existence.

listless reads · Sep 23, 2021

12 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I notice that your claims have no citations

Are you speaking about one specific vaccine? Do you think that the agencies that you listed developed the vaccine? Why do you believe that the vaccines weren't designed to reduce infection rates and induce immunity?

In regions with high vaccine refusal, the implementation of employer mandated vaccines will result in higher vaccination rates. That's true across the employment spectrum. Higher vaccination rates ends the pandemic sooner.

The agencies are the "regulators." although if you dive into the history, you will find many former directors of these regulators also working in big pharma. Conflict of interest. You will also find they are fund by associations that are in turn funded by big pharma. COI. CDC in particular made the RT-PCR test. Makes big money. And not to mention those fat checks our government writes out in our names. Many individuals, like fauci, and some of his compatriots at the NIAID, own patents for the Moderna vaccine. here's a reference.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6935295-NIH-Moderna-Confidential-Agreements.html

If you quantify "immunity" by 6-8 months...I mean I guess? But then I'd have to inquire as to the explanation for Israel's issues right now, with the highest vaccination rates, but a raging virus case count. I'd also like to point to this study as get your thoughts if vaccination is the simple means to a covid end.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733