Union, yes or no?

Teshiee · Nov 11, 2002

It sounds like a double edge sword to me. Personally if nurses would band together in the first place we wouldn't need a middle man but it is here and they way California is looking there won't be a hospital the will not be union. Even where I am working it is buzzing around. Until full time employement seems lucrative they can forget me in the mix.

-jt · Nov 11, 2002

And so it should be! An Rns place is in an RNs union.

The RN union is not a "middle man" or an outside 3rd party as the hospital likes to call them. Its the RNs themselves. Whats wrong with empowering yourself & being in control over what happens to you at work?

When we union RNs sit down at Labor/Management Meetings to discuss problems we've identified at our workplace or when we RNs are at the negotiating table creating our contract with our employer WE are doing the talking & the work.... with our unions valuable expertise & resources sitting next to us to assist. But it is the RNs who work there that are making the decisions so I dont understand where others perception of a "middle man" comes from.

If youre just a "banded together group" all you can do is TALK to your employer & if he doesnt want to listen or take action on your concerns, you can talk till youre blue in the face - but you cant make him do anything or make anything change if he doesnt want it to.

BUT If youre an oficially recognized union of nurses however, the law obligates him to pay attention, to take action on your concerns with your input & agreement, and to share decision making with you. And if he doesnt, as a union, you have legal avenues to take to make him to live up to his responsibility in that regard.

No such power exists for you if you are just a "banded together" group. He doesnt have to do anything you need or share any decision making with you, & as just a banded together group, there is nothing you can do to force him to. Quit & he will just go to overseas to hire someone who wont make any waves.

You can "band together" all you want but if you arent officially a recognized union, you dont have the labor union laws behind you & your employer has all the control. Nothing you obtain as a "banded together" group is guaranteed & all of it can be changed or disappear on the whim of the employer. Thats the difference. That cant happen if you are a union.

Why would any RN prefer to put her future in the employers hands like that & leave herself at his mercy, rather than band together in a legally recognized union of colleagues who have the law behind them to ensure they have an equal voice in their workplace?

Banding together into a group is the same as being unified - but without the legal backing, strength, & protection of the law. So why band together into just a group that has no real voice & no power of the law?

If youre going to "band together" in unity anyway, why not do it in the way that gives you the legal power with it & make your banding together have some strength to make a difference?

I dont understand the aversion to that.

charissa · Nov 11, 2002

I think the misconception that exists here is one created my the hospitals, it is what they have always preached, ""We dont need a middle man" THERE IS NO MIDDLE MAN!" The union is the nurses gourped together talking with the employer, nothing els. This middle man misconception is perfect for them, but the mysterious middleman DOES NOT EXIST

-jt · Nov 12, 2002

You and I know that - or at least thats how it is in our RN union.

I guess its just hard for others who have never had this experience to understand the concept that there is no middle man. But its true - if youve organized into the right union. Then "The Union" is the nurses who work at that facility. THEY are the ones calling the shots and there is no "third party."

bungies · Nov 16, 2002

I might not be understanding this correctly, but in the US, is it the HOSPITALS that are union or non-union, rather than the NURSES?

In Australia, at least where I've worked, it's an individual choice, and not that big an issue - you are or you aren't, and the only people who care whether you're union or not are those who have strong beliefs one way or the other. (It helps that nurses in the public system are paid on award rates.)

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Nov 16, 2002

Howdy yall

from deep in the heart of texas

This subject does keep coming up. There are some very interesting arguments presented for bith sides. But I for myself, will continue unwaveringly. Some have referred to unions as empowering themselves. I have always empowered myself to get the best deal possible for myself. And I will continue to do so as I feel is necessary for my career choices. The main trouble I have with unions, is that besides telling administration what is necessary, They start telling nurses what they can and cant do. It raises collective bargaining which seriously hampers my individual bargaining. And my individual bargaining has kept in good position throughout my career.. Do I think that a union could have done a better job for me, HELL NO. Also, nobody would care for me as much as I care for myself.

Besides my work and my beliefs in patient care, which are very important in my life. I and my family and their well being are of greater importance to me. And there is not a union out there who is going to recognize my values. I am an Individual with my own thoughts and dreams and goals in life and I have met most of them with individual bargaining. This is something that unions will take away from you. You find yourselves getting drawn into the collective bargaining mass. ... It just doesnt work for me. But for those it does work for I wish you the best and God Bless you.

Yes. I look forward to crossing strikelines also.

doo wah ditty

charissa · Nov 16, 2002

the union has been at my facility 30 years now, and has yet to tell the nurses whatt to do, it isn't some weird entity, its us, and yes,. bungies in the US its hospitals that are union or not. They recognizew my nursing values because they aren't like the painter's local 137 or soething, it is that state nursing assoc. although i dont think that non state assoc. unions represent nurses as well, they aren't nurses and as such are not held to our standards and cannot be expected to sign on and keep in line with our values.

mamabear · Nov 17, 2002

I'm currently employed by a Catholic hospital. I have no idea what their position is on unions, if they even have one. :confused:

Things couldn't get much worse: the staffing ratio is outrageous, certain people get preferential treatment, e.g., they never have to take a low census day, or they get away with murder: allowing an incompetent, obnoxious male RN to remain on the job because 1. He's willing to work midnights (less patient contact), 2. He never calls off (we all wish he would) and 3. he's a "male presence". This is the same idiot that hides out in the med room or staff lounge when things get difficult.

Maybe I'm naive, but couldn't a union do something equal treatment? :confused:

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Nov 17, 2002

Howdy yall

from deep in the heart of texas

Well mamabear, I cant tell whether you are catholic bashing or male bashing here.

doo wah ditty

JustMe · Nov 17, 2002

My first job as a new grad was in a non-union hospital. Nearly finished with my BSN, I took a job in a union facility that would give me a pay raise for my BSN and later for my CCRN. I became active in my union because I believe that the nurses ARE the union and that if you don't like what the union is doing--CHANGE IT! The members ARE the union. The union at that time was a professional organization and was a member of ANA. A large coalition of union nurses within the organization took charge through the election process and voted to disassociate from ANA, claiming ANA wasn't doing anything for us. Many were not in favor of this move, but were out-voted. I went through a mourning process over that loss and resigned from all my union activity. But I remain at my union hospital and pay my union dues because I believe in the process, and I pay my dues like I pay my malpractice insurance--to insure against wrongful termination. I miss my colleagues but found another outlet for my activism. I no longer participate in union activities but I sleep better at night.

-jt · Nov 18, 2002

Its the nurses who decide if their hospital will be union or not. If they decide to unionize, they are union nurses & their hospital becomes a union hospital, whether it wants to or not. The hospital itself has no say in the matter - although most try to prevent the nurses from choosing to unionize because then it must share control with the nurses & it doesnt like to do that. But its a federal law that employees (excluding supervisors) have the right to unionize & to unionize with any union they choose. Its against federal law for the employer to interfer with that (but they do try like hell to get around that)

Some states like NY have "closed shop unions" which means that once the nurses make the hospital a union hospital, EVERY nurse who works on staff there (excluding management) becomes a member of the union. Some states use the union-busting tactic of allowing "open shops" where, once the nurses make the hospital a union facility, they then have the individual option of either joining that union or opting out of it. In that case, the hospital will do all it can to keep more nurses from joining the union once its there, thus diminishing the strength of the union in that facility.

"Closed shops" are more united, stronger, & more effective. In "open shops", those RNs who choose to join are the ones who take the actions & fund the efforts, with their membership dues, to improve their workplace & win contract improvements in compensation, benefits & working conditions. Those who choose not to join, can sit back & pay nothing, but since the contract will pertain to all the nurses who work in that union hospital, these non-members tail along & reap the same benefits from the membership dues & hard work of their colleagues who are paying members.

If a hospital cant stop the nurses from unionizing by its intimidation tactics & empty promises, it will push to have an open shop so it can keep the nurses divided & their union weaker.

Open shops defeat the whole purpose of a union - which is strength of unity.

mamabear · Nov 18, 2002

Hey teeimuptom:

I am not Catholic-bashing. I would say the same thing if I worked at Mount Sinai or Cook County.

The "male" I'm allegedly bashing could better be described as a non-female!!:chuckle;)