Nurses at Scripps Encinitas voted this week to keep the California Nurses Association as their union representative. The opponents had tried to launch a decertification effort to eliminate CNA but, according to the hospital's anti-union website, CNA won the vote.
So much for all of the predictions that union decertifications will be sweeping the state of California.
While the vote was close, it's not surprizing that a majority of RN's ultimately felt they'd still do better with the union, despite all the controversy with no contract, strikes, etc.
IMHO, I think the hospital made a mistake by enlisting doctors, non-nurses and anti-union nurses from other hospitals to campaign against the union. You risk offending RN's when people who don't do the job, or people who don't even work there, to try to tell you how to vote on your particular job situation. In my opinion, it probably cost the hospital the election.
Anyway ... just thought everybody would like to know the latest news since decertification has been a hot topic in this forum.
Just curious how much unions charge nurses each month for "representing" them and how pay varies within the same geographical area between Union and Non-Union Hospitals?
Just curious how much unions charge nurses each month for "representing" them and how pay varies within the same geographical area between Union and Non-Union Hospitals?
Most unions charge between 2 and 2.5% of your pay. CNA just raised it's monthly maximum to $100, which will go up every July.
Wages are determined by "market" and non union hospitals are competitive for the most part. Long Beach Memorial Hospital is behind market. We have trouble recruiting right now because we are locked into a contract that CNA negotiated and we are not competative at this time. Non union hospitals are paying more than we are. I hope we are able to decertify. CNA has not made nursing any better in our facility, in fact in many ways it's worse. Especially the way we do floating now. It was so much better before CNA.
When I interviewed at LB/MCH the wages were competitive with other hospitals (more than some, less than others). They got a real raise with the first union contract. I don't know about the other areas, but I know before the union the NICU management had eliminated night shift differentials (calling differentials a bonus so it was taxed at about 50%), payed incentive pay only when they felt like it and the contribution to the merit plan was abysmal. In addition staff had to float in rotation with travellers and the raises were based on the managers' whims. All of those things changed after the union contract, making the $50-$100 a month a wise investment. The staff nurses weren't able to accomplish those things on their own before the union unfortunately. That's why I continue to maintain that unions are only a response to bad management. If management respected their staff, CNA would never be voted in the first place.
A nurse from my hospital in Toronto had worked there pre and post CNA and was a great source of information to me when I was looking for a job in California, as were all the bb members here.
When I interviewed at LB/MCH the wages were competitive with other hospitals (more than some, less than others). They got a real raise with the first union contract. I don't know about the other areas, but I know before the union the NICU management had eliminated night shift differentials (calling differentials a bonus so it was taxed at about 50%), payed incentive pay only when they felt like it and the contribution to the merit plan was abysmal. In addition staff had to float in rotation with travellers and the raises were based on the managers' whims. All of those things changed after the union contract, making the $50-$100 a month a wise investment. The staff nurses weren't able to accomplish those things on their own before the union unfortunately. That's why I continue to maintain that unions are only a response to bad management. If management respected their staff, CNA would never be voted in the first place.
A nurse from my hospital in Toronto had worked there pre and post CNA and was a great source of information to me when I was looking for a job in California, as were all the bb members here.
Thank you for validating what I said. Just because you think that you can handle you own personal bargaining, that fact is that the hospitals have hard nose MALE negotiatiers, who can run rings around any amateur, which you are. If nurses were able negotiate better wages and working conditions, we would all be making a million bucks and working utopia, whic we are not.
Delusions of grandeur will not solve the crisis in nursing. Only hard line negitating by professional union people will turn the tide. I agree, that not all unions do what they should. Washington State Nurses Association is a prime example of that, and the reason that the nurses here in Spokane, dropped out of WSNA like it was the plague after their last excuse for a contract. The nurse got a 5% raise but had to agree to increase the cost of their already overpriced medical benefits by 20 %, and the hospital refused to give them retroactive pay for the three months after the contract expired. As the nurse went to vote on the contract, they put in the paperwork to get out of WSNA. Now that is a union that is about as useful, as we say in Brooklyn, as tits on a bull.
When I interviewed at LB/MCH the wages were competitive with other hospitals (more than some, less than others). They got a real raise with the first union contract. I don't know about the other areas, but I know before the union the NICU management had eliminated night shift differentials (calling differentials a bonus so it was taxed at about 50%), payed incentive pay only when they felt like it and the contribution to the merit plan was abysmal. In addition staff had to float in rotation with travellers and the raises were based on the managers' whims. All of those things changed after the union contract, making the $50-$100 a month a wise investment. The staff nurses weren't able to accomplish those things on their own before the union unfortunately. That's why I continue to maintain that unions are only a response to bad management. If management respected their staff, CNA would never be voted in the first place.
A nurse from my hospital in Toronto had worked there pre and post CNA and was a great source of information to me when I was looking for a job in California, as were all the bb members here.
I must say I'm growing tired of this discussion. I continue to hear anti union folks say that life was better before the union but offer little/no examples of how that is so; and when they do, pro union folks post things that directly refute the anti-union statements. If things were so great pre union, why was the union brought in? The issues fergus mentioned above don't look so good, so is one going to say fergus is lying?
There are some facts I've seen from pro union folks: on average, union workers make more, they can't be terminated for no reason, and they can be more successful in fighting against bad management to improve hospital working conditions.
Anti union folks argue that people could do the same thing as unions without the fees...I've asked multiple times for examples and got responses politicians would be proud of. They mention the dues--statistics show the dues don't overshadow the pay differences (on average); and the dues are tax deductible. They say the unions are unprofessional...well then so are doctors and pharmacists. The pro/anti battle is grossly lopsided UNLESS referring to a good management team.
Bottom line, as many including fergus have said multiple times is that unions are a response to bad management. So here's an idea for the anti union folks...instead of trying to get rid of unions (because it's a waste of their time and effort and will NEVER happen) focus on attacking the source...poor management. Focus on them and make some of these changes that y'all say you have been saying you make in the hospital and I GUARANTEE unions will disappear.
Thank you for validating what I said. Just because you think that you can handle you own personal bargaining, that fact is that the hospitals have hard nose MALE negotiatiers, who can run rings around any amateur, which you are.
Exactly WHAT does MALE and hard nose negotiators have to do with one another?
According to the theory of "nurses eat their young because there are so many women involved" that gets expounded on a daily basis on this BB, women are hard nosed and men are the easygoing ones.
Stereotyping males as hardnosed negotiators is no different as stereotyping women as catty and responsible for "eating their young"
I had asked for specifics as to pay differences between geographically similar hospitals and what I got for the most part is the "party line" from both groups. And what is this sexist crap about males :angryfire
I had asked for specifics as to pay differences between geographically similar hospitals and what I got for the most part is the "party line" from both groups. And what is this sexist crap about males :angryfire
I feel your pain. I have never worked in a union so I can't give you an opinion based on experience. But since you asked a specific question I'm going to give you the best answer I can. Lord knows I asked many questions about union v nonunion and got little more than rhetoric. So here is a link to another thread. I'll try to find the post which gives the statistics you are looking for.
I had asked for specifics as to pay differences between geographically similar hospitals and what I got for the most part is the "party line" from both groups. And what is this sexist crap about males :angryfire
I would give you data on pay difference if able, but as I rarely work in union facilities, my experience is quite limited. And my few experiences in union facilities were not good. However, the few strikes that I have seen were deservedly earned by the facilities in question, by lousy treatment of their staff.
I do not strike break because I support my fellow nurses, but do not believe in unions (much like not believing in political parties).
Now, harassing a certain overblown egotistical actor/politician fundraising at a rock concert....now that I can get behind.
Exactly WHAT does MALE and hard nose negotiators have to do with one another?
According to the theory of "nurses eat their young because there are so many women involved" that gets expounded on a daily basis on this BB, women are hard nosed and men are the easygoing ones.
Stereotyping males as hardnosed negotiators is no different as stereotyping women as catty and responsible for "eating their young"
Here in Spokane, which is a very consertive (read "red neck", town, the hospital always packed its negotiation team with hard- nosed, male administrators. The nurses negotiating team consisted of weak, easily intimidated females. The union reps were as bad as the nurses. At times, it is hard to tell which side the reps were on, as evidenced by the last contract that was negotiated. WSNA, who, as usual, caved in to the hospital demands, and the nurses got nothing. "Sorry guys, that is the best that we can do. The hospital won't give us any more". The nurses are now actually, are now making less than before the new contract. I don't remember a contract where the nurses actually got any improvments, or raises that were not accompanied by an increase in something that we had to pay for. And they wonder why the new grads are leaving to go to Seattle. We have three school of nursing here, an ADN program which is also an LPN program and two BSN programs.
Well, I am a "cracker" girl from the 'Boonies, and gender ain't got nothing to do with whom is hard nosed and whom is intimidated. And there are plenty of rednecks 'round these parts.
Well, I am a "cracker" girl from the 'Boonies, and gender ain't got nothing to do with whom is hard nosed and whom is intimidated. And there are plenty of rednecks 'round these parts.
I'm proud to be a redneck and married to one as well and actually my two adult sons are turning out to be rednecks as well.
I live in the "Boonies" too . . . redneck farmers and redneck loggers. . . . .
And gender ain't got nothing to do with hardnosed - you are so right!
So scary - rednecks have infiltrated allnurses . .. . . . ....
BamaBound2bRN
202 Posts
Just curious how much unions charge nurses each month for "representing" them and how pay varies within the same geographical area between Union and Non-Union Hospitals?