Unfriendly RN's during clinicals

mariedoreen · Jul 8, 2005

The last time I checked student nurses in clinical rotations aren't "gofers". If I wanted to learn how to fetch coffe, I would be taking a food service class.

I've done a lot of it. If the patients want coffee, then I fetch coffee. Especially in Same Day Surgery when they're recovering from their procedure before going home... Heck, I even learned to make coffee on that unit...

In my opinion it has nothing to do with the RNs being friendly; it is all about respect. A nursing student's job is not to make the RNs job easier in clinical rotation or to make them "come around", it is to learn. And if an RN has a problem with that I sugest she/he report that to administration, so she/he can be transfered to anothe unit or assignment, which won't require her/him to provide clinical instruction. Or she/he can opt to go to a hospital that doesn't have clinical contracts. Having a bad day I understand, but when it gets to the point of disrespecting someone else for your bad mood it has gone too far, and needs to be nipped in the bud.

I Agree.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2005

The last time I checked student nurses in clinical rotations aren't "gofers". If I wanted to learn how to fetch coffe, I would be taking a food service class. In my opinion it has nothing to do with the RNs being friendly; it is all about respect. A nursing student's job is not to make the RNs job easier in clinical rotation or to make them "come around", it is to learn. And if an RN has a problem with that I sugest she/he report that to administration, so she/he can be transfered to anothe unit or assignment, which won't require her/him to provide clinical instruction. Or she/he can opt to go to a hospital that doesn't have clinical contracts. Having a bad day I understand, but when it gets to the point of disrespecting someone else for your bad mood it has gone too far, and needs to be nipped in the bud.

It's everyone's job, student nurses included if it's their patient, to fetch coffee, you're not too good for that.

Otherwise, I agree with your post.

The one thing you didn't acknowledge to the person you spoke to is the additional stress and workload a student puts on a nurse, that this person acknowledged. NO EXCUSE FOR SAID NURSE TO BE A GROUCH, COLD OR MEAN.

Wednesday, had a BSN student join me at 7AM (brand new, just shadowing and learning couldn't "do" much) and then an ADN student take two of my patients at 3pm. I had a great day teaching them and learning from them, asnwering their questions, and they thanked me for my kind attention. I thanked them over and over when I asked them to do "menial" tasks for the patient.

After they left, I stayed 45 minutes and catching up my charting, it was a long, tiring, 12 hour going into 14 hour shift. I'm your ideal preceptor, but please acknowledge that having you isn't easy and don't be surprised that the red carpet isn't rolled out for you.

No it's not your job to make my job easier, I'm a preceptor, it's in my job description, I love doing it. And yes, keep on nipping the bad attitudes in the bud, please.

mgd31181 · Jul 9, 2005

It is bs the way most rn's treat students. They act as if they have never been there. Have they forgotten what it is like to be cast out into the shoadows of a new rotation. You have no idea what to do there except for the many odds and ends you have been fed in class. On a new rotation I feel out of place. It is like the first day at a new job, but nobody wants to help you. You feel not only out of place but unwanted. Experienced RN's need an attitude adjustment.

Luv2BAnurse · Jul 9, 2005

It is bs the way most rn's treat students. They act as if they have never been there. Have they forgotten what it is like to be cast out into the shoadows of a new rotation. You have no idea what to do there except for the many odds and ends you have been fed in class. On a new rotation I feel out of place. It is like the first day at a new job, but nobody wants to help you. You feel not only out of place but unwanted. Experienced RN's need an attitude adjustment.

Yes, some do. So do some students.

Sheri257 · Jul 9, 2005

The last time I checked student nurses in clinical rotations aren't "gofers". If I wanted to learn how to fetch coffe, I would be taking a food service class. In my opinion it has nothing to do with the RNs being friendly; it is all about respect. A nursing student's job is not to make the RNs job easier in clinical rotation or to make them "come around", it is to learn.

You can call it being a gofer but I view it as helping out. If an RN comes in really tired, she's gotta take report, get a hundred drugs out in the next hour ... and if I can make her morning a little better by fetching her some coffee that she doesn't have time to get herself, I do it because I don't mind and it makes a difference in that RN's day.

BTW, every time I have fetched coffee the RN's have returned the favor and fetched me some too, when they had the time and were getting some coffee themselves. It's called being part of a team.

Maybe our job as students technically isn't to make their job easier or convince the difficult RN's to come around but, since there's constant threads about difficult RN's ... what's the alternative? Wasting valuable clinical time with a tense situation where you get less training than you otherwise would have?

There's always politics in every work situation. You can either constantly complain and whine about it, or work towards resolving the problem and turn it around. I prefer do what it takes to get my training because, it does pay off in droves.

As for those great RN's who do help you ... I'll do anything for them. Period. Coffee, menial tasks or otherwise because ... they deserve the same kindness they have showed me and I am more than happy to return the favor and help them any way I can.

And Liz...if a student nurse offered to bring me a cuppa Joe when she was having one herself, it would be a nice gesture, thanks. We should all do more nice things for one another ...it makes the job a much more pleasant place. :)

My point exactly. Thanks.

:coollook:

Sheri257 · Jul 9, 2005

Wednesday, had a BSN student join me at 7AM (brand new, just shadowing and learning couldn't "do" much) and then an ADN student take two of my patients at 3pm. I had a great day teaching them and learning from them, asnwering their questions, and they thanked me for my kind attention. I thanked them over and over when I asked them to do "menial" tasks for the patient.
After they left, I stayed 45 minutes and catching up my charting, it was a long, tiring, 12 hour going into 14 hour shift. I'm your ideal preceptor, but please acknowledge that having you isn't easy and don't be surprised that the red carpet isn't rolled out for you.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Too often students don't consider what you guys go through. Even with the students helping with menial tasks you still had to stay late to finish your work. Students really need to take these factors into consideration before they jump to conclusions and judge RN's in clinical.

:coollook:

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 9, 2005

OK, let me be controversial:

I remember going through some of that in nursing school. I remember one nurse telling me to my face that us 'd&% men' didn't get into nursing until there was money to be made and she'd have none of the getting the gravy without paying the dues.

My advice: welcome to nursing, now grow a thicker skin.

What you fail to understand is that all these mean, grouchy nurses aren't your paid clinical instructors. They get no benefit from teaching you and certainly aren't paid more for it. And every question you ask, every interaction that sidetracks them from their 6-7 patients and 15 things that they have prioritized to do - every one of those stolen minutes can be taken as an affront to the time away from their patients; time they already regret not having enough to spend because being a 'light speed soldier' wasn't what they envisioned when they started.

Read a thread or two about nurses that are completely put out about not having enough time to be the patient advocates that you are theoretically being trained to be. Every minute spent with you is a minute not spent with a patient that needs their attention; it's a minute not getting Mr. Jones his morphine or making sure Mrs. Smith isn't climbing over the bedrails, again!

You have 2 clinical patients; "your" nurse has 3 times that. And maybe just maybe, she considers himself to be the nurse for "her" 6 patients, not your personal tutor. In fact, there is somebody right their for you during your rotations that is actually paid for that function.

In alot of places, the trenches are ugly. It's all nice and well to talk about how they should know where you're coming from and be nice for the welfare of the profession, yada yada yada.

In reality, many nurses just want to get through their shifts. It's great to be an idealist, but there are many things about nursing that can make you jaded over time. Is it right? I'm not saying that it is.

I AM SAYING that it is maybe a tad santimonious, not to mention pollyanna, for you to impose your point of view on somebody who's point of view you haven't had the experience to comment upon.

There's an awful lot of venting here about nurses that don't remember things from 'your perspective', but none of you have the slightest inkling or desire to view things from 'their perspective'. How arrogant is that?

So come on and comment about how I am the problem. Actually, I work in ICU and normally have 2 patients and I normally have the time, energy, patience, and desire to interest nursing students in critical care. I like having students around. And I like answering questions that seek knowledge.

(but as another side point, many - not most - but many students ask questions designed to show how smart you are or how appalled you are that we don't do things 'by the book' in the trenches. --- you want to annoy someone's who attention is already in 30 places by the time you expect them to cater to your learning experience? Just ask questions that don't actually seek knowledge but instead attempt to indict these evil RNs that can't see your point of view)

But before you criticize others, wait until you walk a mile in their shoes.

There, I said it. I don't share the point of view that students are an annoyance, but I can certainly understand it when you are already completely overburden just trying to find the glimpses here and there that remind you that you are, in fact, an angel and not a moral punching bag for others.

You might not be the cause, but when "your" nurse was overwhelmed 4 burdens ago, it's completely reasonable to see the next burden, and the next, and finally you students, yet another burden (and any distraction, however noble, by that point is a burden) as more than can be dealt with. If being short with you intimidates you so that "your" nurse feel she has the time to be "their" (her 6-7 patients) nurse, then well, cry me a river.

Yes, you are there to get an education but that doesn't 'entitle' you to command the precious time and empathy from somebody that is already stretched to the limits on both.

~faith,

Timothy.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 9, 2005

I want to clarify my last comments but I don't particularly want to edit them --- at least at the moment.

It's easy to claim the moral high ground and say, "Can you believe those nurses?!?"

But there has to be a reason why 'rude' primary nurses are a common thing for students to see. And rather than consider that there may be a different perspective, I believe that it's a cheap, easy way out to just question the moral integrity of these nurses.

Am I justifying that it's right? Well certainly not that it's the right way to treat a student. But in that nurses minds eye, it might be the most expedient way to 'be right' by their already overwhelmed patient load. One of the key difficulties in nursing is the so called 'critical thinking' component: learning to prioritize. From that perspective, that nurse didn't ask to have you there, they are not compensated extra for you to be there, and you are a distraction from many other priorities.

In a perfect world, this would not be the case. But if you are going into nursing expecting a perfect world, then maybe this is the eye-opener you need to critically examine what you expect to find in your future 12 hr shifts.

I have no problems with students. You HAVE to learn. But. But. But also pay heed to the possibility that it's not all about you. Maybe, just maybe, that 'rude' nurse isn't focused on you at all.

You are guests on your units. In many cases, you are uninvited guests (TPTB may have invited you, but that doesn't mean they took the individual nurse's needs into account when they did so. It's not like TPTB are famous for considering the staff nurse when they make decisions.)

I just think it's kind of well, 'rude' for you to expect that the real world stops just because your academic world intrudes upon it.

I DO think that it's impolite to be rude. But understand that empathy is a commodity. And understand that commodity is more often than not spread more thinly than should be.

I agree that it's not right for students to be treated rudely. But I disagree that means the nurses giving you the short end of the stick are mean and/or evil. It might just mean that they literally don't have the time or empathy available for you.

If your clinical instructors gave you 5 patients and then stayed on top of you because you couldn't keep up, wouldn't you be dismayed? And in such a ragged state of emotional upheaval with trying to keep up, might your nerves be frayed towards anything and everything that diverted your attention from trying to swim with your head underwater? Read a thread or two here if you don't believe that's not a day in/day out state of mind for many of the nurses daily grinding in the trenches.

From that perspective, can you not see that these mean bullies aren't hiding in the break room imagining up new ways to make student's lives h*&^? Maybe they aren't focused on you at all?

I just don't like or agree with the moral superiority to cast evil motives to somebody whose motives and moral distress are still beyond your capacity to relate.

My advice is to soak up as much experience as you can in the 'real world' without complaining that the real world isn't the perfect 'academic world' for you to receive emotional support. That 'real world' doesn't exist for you. And maybe, as a result, it isn't about you.

~faith,

Timothy.

Sheri257 · Jul 9, 2005

(but as another side point, many - not most - but many students ask questions designed to show how smart you are or how appalled you are that we don't do things 'by the book' in the trenches. --- you want to annoy someone's who attention is already in 30 places by the time you expect them to cater to your learning experience? Just ask questions that don't actually seek knowledge but instead attempt to indict these evil RNs that can't see your point of view)

This is a HUGE mistake that students make in clinical and, IMHO, a major reason why some RN's don't want to work with students. Quite frankly, I don't blame them.

I've learned never to judge RN's for not doing things or, not doing them a certain way because ... the fact is the student has no idea how many things the RN has to worry about or, the fact that there is often a good reason for not doing things "by the book."

I agree with your posts entirely BTW. While I am a student, I do try to see things from the RN's point of view but, apparently, I am in the vast minority (see responses to my other posts).

You're right ... too many students think it's all about them when it's not. It's really all about the patients and that has to be the RN's first priority, not the students.

:rolleyes:

mattsmom81 · Jul 9, 2005

" ... too many students think it's all about them when it's not. It's really all about the patients and that has to be the RN's first priority, not the students."-----Lizz

Thank you for understanding this Lizz...I have dealt with too many 'tunnel vision'd' students who won't look past their own entitled needs.

A student like you is more likely to have an optimal clinical experience..you are already 'tuning in' to your work environment...a good thing. :)

finchertwins, BSN, RN · Jul 9, 2005

Well I may double my lifetime number of posts today. Like some of us in here I have been on different sides of the clinical experience. First as a student then as a nurse. I remember going to the clinical floor the meet nurses I did not know and to care for patients with illness's I did not understand and on top of that had no sleep prior and knoew where nothing was on the floor. At times I asked to many questions and annoyed the heck out of the nurse I was with. Then I remember taking my first student when I was a nurse and wondered when they would shut up and stop asking so many dang questions. I have always tried to work with my students the same way the nurses tried to work with me when I was a student. It was never easy but at the end of the shift no one wanted to kill the other one. I say it is your schools job to find a clinical area that accepts students the way they are. It is not easy having a student tag along but it is nec. at times. Some students do need some humility or extra book work, the same way some nurses need a chill pill and some patients(no pun intended). Finish nursing school and when you get the chance to have a student treat them the way you wanted to be treated and help improve your units clinical experience.

crzynurse05 · Jul 9, 2005

During one of my first rotations I ran across the same problem. To make it even worse this nurse had just graduated from the same school I am attending. She was only 6 months out. I could not believe she could have forgotten what it was like to be in clinicals for the first times. There are a few mean ones out there, but I have also worked with ones that are awesome. Things do get better. I know when I'm on the job and a student nurse askes me for help, I will greet her or him with a smile and do all I can to make them feel welcome.