Uk for Uk?

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Hi all,

Sorry if this offends anyone, but over the last few months, all I've seen in the UK forum is how people are wanting to go to the US! I understand why you might want to do it... but I personally want to hear from people in the UK about UK nursing. Is it so bad that every person from the UK on this forum wants to go to the US?

Come on, prove me wrong!

It's all so rediculous! Ok, I got a good rating from AFC, but I feel limited now in where I can move to as I know it will affect my scoring even though (obviously) my skills won't change.

Maybe I should adapt my Sociology degree and go waste time blowing bubbles and cooing at babies and get the same grade :uhoh3:

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hi,

i am a newly qualified nurse in the UK and i love it!!!!!!

i got my first choice job and am now enjoying being a theatre nurse and all that entails.

i found this forum by accident but i am enjoying it.

hope to speak to more nurses where ever they are from

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Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.
hi,

i am a newly qualified nurse in the UK and i love it!!!!!!

i got my first choice job and am now enjoying being a theatre nurse and all that entails.

i found this forum by accident but i am enjoying it.

hope to speak to more nurses where ever they are from

Hi and Welcome

It is a great site :D

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Specializes in Multiple.

Hi - I have kept quiet for a while on this thread, as I was one of the few who actually voted for AfC. :uhoh3: I did it in the belief that the idea behind it was good - equal work for equal pay. HOWEVER, hindsight is 20/20 as they say, and given the chance to do it all again, I wouldn't.

As an RCN steward I have found it hard - I and colleagues have worked hard to make it work, but there seem to have been so many anomalies and no consistency checking throughout the NHS - and IMO this is where it has all fallen down.

Some of you have mentioned having degrees etc and them not being taken into account. Were they 'required for the job'? I have a masters and am studying for a PhD and was banded a 6 - have been qualified for 24 years and am working in a specialist field - but to be honest, a band 6 is right for the job - it's me that's in the wrong one possibly!

I would really like to see the UK forums open up more here - perhaps we should get together - anyone going to RCN congress?

(Sorry for the length of this post)

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Ach well,

I guess I'm alone here. I personally came here to read about the US perspective on nursing and also to see how it compared to the UK. I've not come across any UK nursing forums as comprehensive as this one, hence why I asked.

But hey, I love this forum, so maybe I'll just ignore the UK part and not get annoyed that every UK nurse I see seems to be running off to the US ;)

P.S. Not that I wouldn't contemplate it in different circumstances, just for experience!

Im a UK nurse and im staying put here in UK..

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I did it in the belief that the idea behind it was good - equal work for equal pay

Therein lies the problem. The idea was never going to work on the pay front.

Personal Assistant - Band 5 (role: organising things for the Exec, diary, files, ordering a bit of this and that, making numerous cups of tea for him/her, filing nails etc etc)

Registered Nurse/ entry Midwife - Band 5 (role: life and/or death situations, impossible workload, dangerously low staffing levels, often in-charge of 30 or so patients with the responsibility that goes with it, violence and aggression from an increasingly demanding public, highly emotionally distressing scenarios...I needn't go on)

Whilst not equal work, it is equal pay and it's wrong.

Cheers

OG

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Specializes in Multiple.
Therein lies the problem. The idea was never going to work on the pay front.

Personal Assistant - Band 5 (role: organising things for the Exec, diary, files, ordering a bit of this and that, making numerous cups of tea for him/her, filing nails etc etc)

Sorry OG - I think you misunderstand PAs - I share an office with one, and how you describe her role is unfair. She is required to have a business degree, manages the budget, manages staff, does 1:1s, appraisals and performance management on those staff, manages sickness plus much minute taking in employment tribunals and redundancies where the mood is very very hostile etc.

Anyhow, my friend was banded a 4 - not a 5 and I think herein lies the problem. We are not comparing like with like and that's why an admin and clerical scale and a nursing and midwifery scale was good.

Now nurses banding - don't even get me started! My manager is banded a 6 and so is her manager - and guess what - my banding is a 6 too! :angryfire

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Sorry OG - I think you misunderstand PAs - I share an office with one, and how you describe her role is unfair. She is required to have a business degree, manages the budget, manages staff, does 1:1s, appraisals and performance management on those staff, manages sickness plus much minute taking in employment tribunals and redundancies where the mood is very very hostile etc.

I don't misunderstand PAs and I was only job matching one the other day. I'm sure you'll take my comments with tongue slightly in cheek in my attempt to highlight the gross unfairness of AfC and it's set up, but, let's be fair, being a PA is hardly life or death stuff is it?

I've also had experience of PAs in all shapes and forms, I have two in my office now, and they've all had a range of roles, some tougher than others. And of course, when you say she is required to have a business degree, I have to point out that the national profile states 'and relevant experience to degree level or equivalent' which translates into Band 5 PAs not requiring a Business degree (locally that of course may be different)

I blame the RCN.

Cheers

OG

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Specializes in Multiple.
I blame the RCN.

I don't - I blame the people who came up with this stuff - the government . DoH. In theory it seemed to work, it's the underfunding of the process and their insistance in adhering to unrealistic deadlines that has meant the process has been handled so badly. They never learned the lessons from the Early Implementers before they implemented the system.

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I don't - I blame the people who came up with this stuff - the government . DoH. In theory it seemed to work, it's the underfunding of the process and their insistance in adhering to unrealistic deadlines that has meant the process has been handled so badly. They never learned the lessons from the Early Implementers before they implemented the system.

Are you trying to say that the RCN didn't 'come up with this stuff'? I think you'll find they sat around the table for around 5 years planning this sorry mess with the Govt and other TUs. Therefore, they, by their involvement, are partly responsible for coming up with this stuff. Why were they so keen to get me and fellow members to vote 'Yes' and then were extremely pleased with the result of the apathetic vote in favour of AfC? They were very prominent init all. Now they seem to be backtracking as the grass is not so green on the AfC side and members are starting to suffer. Ever so slightly late IMO.

Nobody has learnt form the Early Implementers as they have refused to share a great deal of information with anyone else for some strange reason. They also have not come up with many answers to a lot of the issues posed by AfC.

I also blame the RCM

Cheers

OG

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Specializes in Multiple.

Ok, we have a difference of opinion on some of this stuff - but at the end of the day we agree on one thing - AfC is a load of ****. So any suggestions as to what we can do about it?

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Ok, we have a difference of opinion on some of this stuff - but at the end of the day we agree on one thing - AfC is a load of ****. So any suggestions as to what we can do about it?

We're doomed Mr Mainwaring, DOOMED (those of you reading this who are under 30 years of age may have to ask your parents what this means)

In rearranging the following, you have my thoughts on the AfC situation

stable door, horse, shutting, after, bolted

The next review will be in approximately 20 years time, so perhaps we'll go back to clinical grading or someone will come up with a revolutionary scheme to value and reward all nurses (midwives etc) by paying them what the deserve and not just focussing on the hard to recruit/retain D and G Grade Ward Managers and ignoring others.

The continually evolving (and sometimes wayward) role of the nurse (midwife etc) in recent history (20-30 years) has shown that we can't afford to group nurses in with everyone else when it comes to terms and conditions as we are unlike anyone other group. No other 'profession' (don't start me on this one) has taken on so much from other professions or is likely to over the next X years - full formulary prescribing being the latest. What next?

The power of nurses (individual and group) is something that always interests me. Are nurses going to grasp the small bits of medical power that they will automatically be granted when they take on more irreplaceable roles to influence the Govt in negotiations over terms and conditions? Is nursing ever going to become more powerful? I fear the only way out of AfC in the future is for 'nursing' to utilise it's professional power to say it as it is and make demands that can not be ignored.

That's how doctors got out of AfC, isn't it?

I blame the BMA

Cheers

OG

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