U.S. pays for care of illegal aliens

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SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/223556_immig10.html

U.S. pays for care of illegal aliens

Treatment money for border states

Tuesday, May 10, 2005

By ROBERT PEAR

THE NEW YORK TIMES

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration said yesterday that it would start paying hospitals and doctors for providing emergency care to illegal immigrants.

The money, totaling $1 billion, will be available for services provided from today through September 2008. Congress provided the money as part of the 2003 law that expanded Medicare to cover prescription drugs, but the new payments have nothing to do with the Medicare program.

Members of Congress from border states had sought the money. They said treatment of illegal immigrants imposed a huge financial burden on many hospitals, which are required to provide emergency care to patients who need it, regardless of their immigration status or ability to pay.

Under the new program, hospitals are supposed to ask patients for documents to substantiate payment claims. But Dr. Mark McClellan, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, said a hospital should not directly ask a patient "if he or she is an undocumented alien."

Instead, he said, hospitals can try to establish a patient's status by analyzing the answers to "indirect questions": Is the person eligible for Medicaid? (If so, payment is generally not available under the new program.) Has the person reported a foreign place of birth? Does the person have a border-crossing card like those issued to Mexican citizens? Does the person have a foreign passport, a foreign driver's license or a foreign identification card?

The Bush administration abandoned a proposal that would have required many hospitals to ask patients if they were U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.

"In no circumstances are hospitals required to ask people about their citizenship status," McClellan said yesterday.

Hospital executives and immigrant rights groups had said such questions would deter illegal immigrants from seeking care and could lead to serious public health problems by increasing the spread of communicable diseases.

Cecilia Munoz, a vice president of the National Council of La Raza, a Latino civil rights group, said the new requirements were an improvement over the original proposal but would still discourage some immigrants from seeking treatment.

"Hospitals will have to ask confusing, highly technical questions about immigration documents," Munoz said. "That will create a perception in the Latino community that you have to show your papers in order to get emergency care. That's a misperception, but it may be enough to deter some people from seeking care."

The new program is run by the Department of Health and Human Services. McClellan said the department would not provide information about illegal immigrants to law enforcement officials for use in "routine civil immigration proceedings." But in rare cases, he said, the information may be used in criminal investigations.

The largest allocations this fiscal year are going to California, which will receive $70.8 million; Texas, $46 million; Arizona, $45 million; New York, $12.3 million; Illinois, $10.3 million; Florida, $8.7 million; and New Mexico, $5.1 million.

CeciRN and mercy teapot are right.

Sytudies have indicated if the government could somehow do an offical accounting on the taxes paid by those using fake Social security numbers alone they would find that more money comes in the system from these workers than goes out.

Besides if we fixed our broken system, the tax money alone would probably fixed Social Security.

You may not be aware of it, but there are similar issues in Canada. I worked with MANY self-paying patients in Vancouver and many illegal immigrants in Toronto. It takes a certain amount of time and paperwork before people are covered under most provincial health plans.

Oh I am aware of it! I live in Hamilton where there is a very significant immigrant population. My point was that at least we have universal health care in prinicple, and coverage for the majority of people is better than what it is in the states.

Oh I am aware of it! I live in Hamilton where there is a very significant immigrant population. My point was that at least we have universal health care in prinicple, and coverage for the majority of people is better than what it is in the states.

They also have universal healthcare in the US in a sense. No one can be turned away from an emergency room if they need care regardless of their immigration or insurance status.

Specializes in Public Health, DEI.
They also have universal healthcare in the US in a sense. No one can be turned away from an emergency room if they need care regardless of their immigration or insurance status.

Doesn't universal healthcare focus on preventive care (which makes much more sense than just paying for emergencies, anyway). Plus, emergency rooms can't turn anyone away, but they can sure dun you for payment for the rest of your life.

The INS won't actively deport illegal aliens unless they are in the work place. They are very swamped to really care about your average undocumented worker unless they raid the place she/he is working at. It is a rare hospital that will report an illegal. Whether people like to admit it or not, these people help more than they hinder the economy of the USA. Most of the ones I have had contact with are too proud to get on welfare and get food stamps. Plus because they work with fake names and Social Security cards they do pay taxes but cannot file Income Tax. So if the are entitled to a tax refund they won't collect it due to fear of being discovered.

In my area, the real problem of helping the economy is that many well to do people have come from other countries, take hi paying jobs, (mostly in the computer industry) and NOW bring over their myriad of family members to visit, stay indefinitely and are very prone to heart disease. Most do not have travel insurance. Thus they show up in the ERs, call 911, have no insurance and apply for charity care-----have their OHS, stents, etc, done free gratis our healthcare system. So, there are areas where our resources that could have gone to deserving people go to those who have learned how to manipulate the system.

Specializes in Medical/Surgical/Maternal and Child.

My husband is from Mexico (legally) and we've been married for 31 years and for 31 years I've been hearing the same thing over and over again about undocumented aliens (illegal if you wish) and it still has not been curbed and it won't be curbed anytime soon: 1) Because the people who hire them will continue to hire them because they are cheap labor and will do the jobs Americans refuse to do, i.e, migrant farm work, bus boys, dishwashers, hotel maids, nannies, gardners, etc. 2) As long as there are immigration officers who take bribes from those crossing the border and turn their heads the other way while they pass through the check points. And don't be so naive that this does not happen because it does. Whether you believe it or not, the majority of these people who come from Latin America are way too proud to accept handouts from this country so they will work at 2-3 jobs per day picking your produce, cleaning your toilets and making your beds in hotel rooms, bussing your dishes and washing them in restaurants, taking care of your kids, mowing your lawns for the meager wages they are paid. They use fake Social Security cards to do this, pay taxes just like you and I do, but the difference is, come every April 15, if they have a tax refund coming to them which they earned, they will not get it. So that money stays in the United States coffers.

Specializes in CVICU, CV Transplant.
It's Parkland Hospital in Dallas, in my opinion , one of the best hospitals in the country. Not much to look at, but great care.

Most years they have the most births of any hospital in the country. They also have a world famous burn unit and trauma service. They do serve a huge immigrant population.

No, the family cannot stay because of the birth of a baby. The child must be 18 in order to petition for the immigration of the parent. There are many cases of parents being deported even though they have US born children (under 18).The baby is a citizen though, and does get the rights that go along with that.

Yes, it is Parkland Hospital and it is an amazing place! It is often said if one wants to work anywhere in the country, then obtain experience at Parkland first. I work there as a student nurse and it is a great place to gain knowledge and experience.

Avery

Illegal Aliens cost this country way more in money than they ever give back. Most work under the table and at low wages and contribute little if any money in taxes to our system. Many use the ER's as primary care and even utilize ambulances for non-emergent conditions becuase they don't have to pay for it. As far as things costing more if Illegals weren't here, I have two thoughts. (Same excuse farmers use for subsidies, even though we pay farmers not to plant)

A.) wouldn't cost me more because I wouldn't buy it.

B.) Americans would be forced to do labor intensive jobs if we eliminated the welfare system.

The trouble is we have two many people in this country getting handouts. People receiving Social Security who never paid into it. People constantly wanting unemployment benefits extended the list goes on and on. Even with the federal government providing money to the hospitals is still our tax dollars being wasted. I have had illegals in the ER at various times when I worked out west and I would call the INS on them, but not sure if any follow-up was done on their part.

I suggest you update your facts a little. One, you cannot receive SSDI unless you have nine or more quarters paid into it. Second, no one receives social securit benefits unless they or a parent has paid into it. Third, your calling of the INS is in violation, most likely, of your facility's policy, state and federal law. And is beneath anyone but someone who has an axe to grind. Fourth, forcing people to do a job is known as slavery, something that was outlawed more then 140 years ago.

Grannynurse :angryfire

Fourth, forcing people to do a job is known as slavery, something that was outlawed more then 140 years ago.

Grannynurse :angryfire

But, do you call "workfare" (if that's even done anymore) SLAVERY? Don't you think that people who are capable of working SHOULD work; perhaps even sweeping streets, picking up trash; that is, jobs that some might consider "menial--" if they can do so, to EARN their general aid checks?

I work in San Francisco and Oakland quite a bit, and you'd be amazed at the number of healthy, able bodied MEN you see panhandling--often VERY aggressively; literally getting in peoples' faces; threatening them; spitting at them----in high traffic tourist areas. Many of these people receive general aid, as well. They always seem to be able to afford cigarettes and alcohol! The tourists feel sorry for them---however, they don't see the same people, day in and day out, month in and month out, YEAR in and year out, set up with their cardboard signs, as those of us who work there do--and they don't know, as we do, that it's a scam on the part of many. It's out and out welfare fraud. There are people who MOVE to SF, knowing full well they can't afford to live there--but knowing that the general aid (welfare) is the highest in the nation.

They also don't see the "welfare moms" flocking to the check cashing centers--for some reason, they don't have bank accounts; maybe because they know that deposits to those accounts can be traced and reported---on the first of the month, (referred to as "Mother's Day") to pick up and cash their AFDC or general aid checks. Funny, the majority of these moms seem to have meticulously done "dragonlady" sculptured nails and perfect hair, done in a salon, obviously. Why can't they work? Who is taking care of their kids while they are picking up their checks?

I am not addressing, here, illegal aliens. Truthfully, most of the Hispanic people I see--women---are in hotels, working as housekeeping staff, and most of the Hispanic men I see are painting, helping on moving vans, hauling trash or debris or doing yardwork or gardening. Are they illegals? No idea---I mean, of course, San Francisco has a huge NATIVE Hispanic population---but my point is I don't see Hispanic men out there on the "high traffic" tourist points, such as Union Square, Ghiradelli Square or various BART stations out there panhandling--they are WORKING. Gotta hand it to them; the ones I see seem to have a very strong work ethic and sense of responsibility for supporting their families.

Specializes in Public Health, DEI.
But, do you call "workfare" (if that's even done anymore) SLAVERY? Don't you think that people who are capable of working SHOULD work; perhaps even sweeping streets, picking up trash; that is, jobs that some might consider "menial--" if they can do so, to EARN their general aid checks?

I work in San Francisco and Oakland quite a bit, and you'd be amazed at the number of healthy, able bodied MEN you see panhandling--often VERY aggressively; literally getting in peoples' faces; threatening them; spitting at them----in high traffic tourist areas. Many of these people receive general aid, as well. They always seem to be able to afford cigarettes and alcohol! The tourists feel sorry for them---however, they don't see the same people, day in and day out, month in and month out, YEAR in and year out, set up with their cardboard signs, as those of us who work there do--and they don't know, as we do, that it's a scam on the part of many. It's out and out welfare fraud. There are people who MOVE to SF, knowing full well they can't afford to live there--but knowing that the general aid (welfare) is the highest in the nation.

They also don't see the "welfare moms" flocking to the check cashing centers--for some reason, they don't have bank accounts; maybe because they know that deposits to those accounts can be traced and reported---on the first of the month, (referred to as "Mother's Day") to pick up and cash their AFDC or general aid checks. Funny, the majority of these moms seem to have meticulously done "dragonlady" sculptured nails and perfect hair, done in a salon, obviously. Why can't they work? Who is taking care of their kids while they are picking up their checks?

I am not addressing, here, illegal aliens. Truthfully, most of the Hispanic people I see--women---are in hotels, working as housekeeping staff, and most of the Hispanic men I see are painting, helping on moving vans, hauling trash or debris or doing yardwork or gardening. Are they illegals? No idea---I mean, of course, San Francisco has a huge NATIVE Hispanic population---but my point is I don't see Hispanic men out there on the "high traffic" tourist points, such as Union Square, Ghiradelli Square or various BART stations out there panhandling--they are WORKING. Gotta hand it to them; the ones I see seem to have a very strong work ethic and sense of responsibility for supporting their families.

I'm curious how you would know that these men are receiving general relief? Ever since welfare reform was passed, even if they did qualify for GR at some point, there is an enforced lifetime limit. Chances are, most of the people of whom you speak were already past their limit when reform was passed. I just spent a week in San Francisco in Feb., and although I did see lots of panhandlers, I never felt any of them were aggressive. I suppose that's a matter of opinion, though. As far as why they can't work, chances are they are mentally ill, which isn't something you'd be able to tell by looking at them. There is a check cashing store in the same center as my gym. The people I see going in and out of there sure don't look like they've had their hair done in a salon. As far as why they need to use that service instead of a bank, my guess would be that maybe they have bounced so many checks that no bank will have them as a customer any more.

The trouble is we have two many people in this country getting handouts. People receiving Social Security who never paid into it. People constantly wanting unemployment benefits extended the list goes on and on.

I heard a lot of judgement (and not just in the above comments) and preconcieved notions about those social assistance. Certainly, there are those that do abuse 'the system' but there are those that truly do need the assistance, and you can't make the exception the rule. How many middle class people that are literally 2 paycheques away from poverty?

I think that you can't simply look at just the person that is receiving the social assistance, whether they are abusing it or not, you have to look at so many other system factors. Education system, social housing system, economy (list the determinants of health here) We have to question what allows people do become dependant on it? What the barriers to finding assisstance? What allows people to get out of poverty?

And probably most importantly...how to we, as nurses, best advocate for our patients that need help?

And probably most importantly...how to we, as nurses, best advocate for our patients that need help?

I worked in the El Paso area for some time. The hospitals are strapped. The Mexicans dump some pretty horrendous cases in the hospitals and because of our system we can't turn around and dump them back across the border. I've seen more then a few "free" open heart surgeries given away. Wonder how many US Citizens had to file bankruptcy because of that life saving surgery. They'd probably be demoralized to learn that it's literally being given away to foreigners.

I'm all for the idea of stabilization & give them a bus ticket or ambulance ride back to the homeland. Let Mexico & the Mexican government take care of Mexican citizens.

We have enough Americans who have trouble getting decent health care. I don't know why in the world we're giving it away to foreigners who have zero intention of ever paying their bills.

That's how I would like to advocate for my patients.

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