U.S. pays for care of illegal aliens

Nurses Activism

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SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/223556_immig10.html

U.S. pays for care of illegal aliens

Treatment money for border states

Tuesday, May 10, 2005

By ROBERT PEAR

THE NEW YORK TIMES

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration said yesterday that it would start paying hospitals and doctors for providing emergency care to illegal immigrants.

The money, totaling $1 billion, will be available for services provided from today through September 2008. Congress provided the money as part of the 2003 law that expanded Medicare to cover prescription drugs, but the new payments have nothing to do with the Medicare program.

Members of Congress from border states had sought the money. They said treatment of illegal immigrants imposed a huge financial burden on many hospitals, which are required to provide emergency care to patients who need it, regardless of their immigration status or ability to pay.

Under the new program, hospitals are supposed to ask patients for documents to substantiate payment claims. But Dr. Mark McClellan, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, said a hospital should not directly ask a patient "if he or she is an undocumented alien."

Instead, he said, hospitals can try to establish a patient's status by analyzing the answers to "indirect questions": Is the person eligible for Medicaid? (If so, payment is generally not available under the new program.) Has the person reported a foreign place of birth? Does the person have a border-crossing card like those issued to Mexican citizens? Does the person have a foreign passport, a foreign driver's license or a foreign identification card?

The Bush administration abandoned a proposal that would have required many hospitals to ask patients if they were U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.

"In no circumstances are hospitals required to ask people about their citizenship status," McClellan said yesterday.

Hospital executives and immigrant rights groups had said such questions would deter illegal immigrants from seeking care and could lead to serious public health problems by increasing the spread of communicable diseases.

Cecilia Munoz, a vice president of the National Council of La Raza, a Latino civil rights group, said the new requirements were an improvement over the original proposal but would still discourage some immigrants from seeking treatment.

"Hospitals will have to ask confusing, highly technical questions about immigration documents," Munoz said. "That will create a perception in the Latino community that you have to show your papers in order to get emergency care. That's a misperception, but it may be enough to deter some people from seeking care."

The new program is run by the Department of Health and Human Services. McClellan said the department would not provide information about illegal immigrants to law enforcement officials for use in "routine civil immigration proceedings." But in rare cases, he said, the information may be used in criminal investigations.

The largest allocations this fiscal year are going to California, which will receive $70.8 million; Texas, $46 million; Arizona, $45 million; New York, $12.3 million; Illinois, $10.3 million; Florida, $8.7 million; and New Mexico, $5.1 million.

I'm curious how you would know that these men are receiving general relief? Ever since welfare reform was passed, even if they did qualify for GR at some point, there is an enforced lifetime limit. Chances are, most of the people of whom you speak were already past their limit when reform was passed. I just spent a week in San Francisco in Feb., and although I did see lots of panhandlers, I never felt any of them were aggressive. I suppose that's a matter of opinion, though. As far as why they can't work, chances are they are mentally ill, which isn't something you'd be able to tell by looking at them. There is a check cashing store in the same center as my gym. The people I see going in and out of there sure don't look like they've had their hair done in a salon. As far as why they need to use that service instead of a bank, my guess would be that maybe they have bounced so many checks that no bank will have them as a customer any more.

Well, you are correct; there is a brand new mayor in San Francisco, Gavin Newsome (I am not sure if I spelled his last name correctly) and he has cracked down big time on general relief---housing is available to the homeless, but even then there are stipulations if they want to keep that housing.

Go to Oakland, sometime, in the neighborhood of the MacArthur Bart, all the way up to Berkeley. You will see the panhandlers I mean--those that get in your face; yelling obscenities at you, threatening to throw urine or feces at you, or telling you that they have AIDS and will spit on you. LOL!! I actuallly have had them spit on me, at times, and prostitutes, as well (many of whom are also junkies, or crack addicts.) I am not afraid of getting AIDS from being spat upon, but many (particularly tourists) are terrified, and meet their demands. Or head over to the Tenderloin, for some really aggressive panhandlers---heck, they are everywhere; even over in Pacific Heights, on Fillmore, where I used to work. I have been working in SF off and on since '96--every time I go there, and every time I take the Bart from Oakland to catch the 38 Geary bus at the Montgomery Bart station, I see and have spoken to (each time) the same guy---always in the same exact place, sitting on a milk crate with the same sign, that reads, "Another day in paradise." The tourists just eat it up--but that guy is as healthy and as sane as all of us (who also speak to him; after all, we've been seeing him for years, and he us) who are commuting to work via the bus and the BART. He's got quite a thriving "business" going, and no one else would dare "set up shop" there--it's his territory, and he lets anyone who would try to encroach on it know it.

Most of the male panhandlers--not him-- are winos, smelling of urine, or junkies. Some, not all, are mentally ill--that is, they refuse to take the meds that would keep them grounded in reality--and those tend to babble nonsense with the voices in their heads, or shout obscenties at these unseen demons. Those meds are available, but they don't want to deal with the side effects. They don't like doing "the Thorazine shuffle" or dealing with tardive dyskinesia. Who would?

You will also see the moms I speak of on the buses that run through the area from the MacArthur Bart up to Berkeley.

Most of us that live there part of the year, as I do, tend to really, really dress down--when I live there, I live in the Haight, so I tend to dress like a typical Bay area bohemian, in faded vintage jeans, shawls, etc--just as we did in the '60s. When panhandlers approach me, I simply laugh and say, "Do I look like I have any money?" Then they back off. If I see one with a dog or a cat, I always go into a neigborhood grocery--they are everywhere--and buy them some dog or cat food. I don't think the animal should suffer for the bad decisions of their owner, who will probably end up abandoning that animal, anyway. They can't take care of themselves---how can they take care of a pet? Anyway, I don't feel I need to support anybody's booze, drug, or cigarette habit.

when the people who come to california from mexico they just want to work here because there is no jobs in mexico.only if your born in mexico to a rich family you can go to school there and get a good job but that is really rare.I live in san diego and there are ALOT of mexicans here.and they say that if your parents don't have money to send you to school you work.and there's not any good paying jobs there .so they hear from friends or relatives about the jobs in america and $6.75 seems alot better to them then $2.oo an hour.but getting here is a @!#&.they get lost out there in the hills and there not as prepared as they thought, there just trying to get here.and then you have those "coyotes"those bad guys who steal and rob the immigrants and rape the female immigrants,who are so desperatly trying to get over here to work that's all they want is to work.I hope Bush passes some kind of amnesty soon!

Specializes in PeriOp, ICU, PICU, NICU.

i just wanted to point out that maybe the thread is going a little of the topic about (illegal aliens and high cost of healthcare)

not to be rude to anyone or offensive but....... :offtopic:

please let's stop singling out "mexicans". (yes they are the closest to the u.s border, so what?).... hispanics whether hounduran, guatemalan, mexican, bolivian, peruvian, colombian, chilean, artentinan, ecuatorian, venezuelan, brazilian, whatever......

is not mexican! lets refer to illegal aliens as a whole please (some of us are hispanic and would like to keep it that way :))

#2). who said hispanics are the only illegal aliens in the country? :rolleyes:

#3). yes, maybe they (illegals) are a huge burden to the healthcare industry.....what else is new? (so then, modify the system and do something about it period. but it is easier said than done right?)

burden? so are all the native americans*** who live off welfare, and will continue to do so until the system stops! (we all know that too :) ). oh, and the native "mommies" who wish to give birth to a child just about every 9 months to have a higher check......hence, the state paying for their hospital care. etc.... (have no shame about it either)

ok, so if the problem is that illegal aliens (as some say) don't pay taxes, get payed under the table, yet recieve free healthcare.......

again, what about all the native legal americans*** who don't work and have no intention of earning thier daily bread, while they sit all day at home watching t.v, giving birth to a baby.....oh let's say just about every 9 months, wear better clothes than you and i, eat better than you and i, etc.......

aren't they a burden to all of us too? (talk about comodity)

#4). we all know that you don't find many willing people to work the field or whatever for a measly pay? not in america. you cannot force them cause civil rights, so who ever has the will to work, just let them!

#5). to the poster who mentioned that they would just call immigration on them when they were in the hospital......sorry to say this, but you are plain rude :stone

your job is to be a nurse, not be the hospital's pitbull. just do your job, and do just that (be a healthcare provider).... and let the immigration dept. deal with their immigration status. if you don't like the burden.....do something about it to modify/change the system. matters cannot be resolved by taking your own action. get together, unify, and work in a civilized way.

...bottom line.....the illegals are not the only burden. there is more in the pot that one can see inside. needless to say, the real victims are those of us who are in the middle. working visciously just to eat and have a roof over our heads, or the one's trying to fulfill and education, who have to come up with the tax money for others to have benefits. i myself, can't even afford health insurance, (so i am on my own), yet faithfully pay taxes each year, work 2 jobs and go to school at night, am waiting until i finish to start my family, etc... there is no use in complaining, i just take it one day at a time and am grateful every moment i breath. :)

***by native americans i do not mean the race. i mean the one's u.s. born in general.

i respect everyone's point of view and opinions, therefore; respect mine :p

thank you kindly,

jessica marti-gomez

They also have universal healthcare in the US in a sense. No one can be turned away from an emergency room if they need care regardless of their immigration or insurance status.

Yes but if they should need ongoing care and they have no insurance...good luck. I recently read here of a man dying from cancer but his insurance company wouldn't pay for his care.

What irks me is the slew of people moving to Canada for our "free" health care. :chuckle

People...it's not free. We pay through our teeth with taxes for this privilege! And it ain't so hot either. We wait 10 hours in an ER too. But we get tertiary care regardless of our insurance policy.

So many people complain about how long it takes to get OHIP once they move. The gov't is well aware of the amount of people moving here for the healthcare and since its in such bad shape already for those already here....they aren't going to make it a walk in the park to obtain. But I feel its everywhere to a certain extent too. My parent's insurance policy in Mexico is a joke. And no I'm not insulting Mexico either. Just pointing out every country has its problems even if you're upper middle class retiring in Mexico.

Now I'm not directing this at anyone in particular here...just voicing my opinion and some small facts. :)

Z

Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.

All illegal aliens are entitled to get health care. This is a great country and to pay health care for a small segment of society. Is far cheaper than denying them care and having them die on the streets for lack of care.

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