Tylenol max/safe dosage

Nurses General Nursing

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Let's say a 55 year old patient has an order for MS Contin every 12 hours 8am and 8pm for chronic pain. They also have an order for 2 tabs Vicodin 5/500 every four hours as needed for breakthrough pain. These orders have been in place for 10 days and the patient has been receiving the PRN Vicodin 5 times per day for all 10 days.

On Monday, the patient receives 2 tabs of Vicodin at 6am, 10am, 2pm, and 6pm. The patient requests 2 Vicodin at 10pm from the RN that just came on duty. This nurse typically works on the other side of the unit and has never cared for this patient before. The nurse reviewed the MAR and realized that administering the medication would put the Tylenol over the safe dose of 4000mg/day.

The on-call MD was notified and the nurse went over the patients allergies with him. The on-call MD ordered a lidocaine patch to be applied to the lower back. The nurse applied it, in addition to assisting the patient with other comfort measures. The patient seemed satisfied and verbalized an understanding of why the Vicodin could not be given.

The next day however, the patient complained to the regular MD when he was doing morning rounds, the MD in turn complained to the unit manager. The unit manager approached the RN (next scheduled shift) and asked why the Vicodin was not given. The nurse explained the situation, to which the Unit Manager replied that if it doesn't explicitly state on the MD orders for the patient not to exceed 4000mg/day, there is no reason to hold the dose and it was incorrect for the nurse to not give the medication.

Would you administer a medication that exceeds the safe dose? I am a fairly new nurse and did not feel comfortable giving the medication and I do not feel any better now after hearing the managers response to the situation.

Thank you in advance for any feedback :)

Specializes in LTC.
Knowing that such a dosage is over what's safe, I wouldn't give it no matter what the unit manager or doctor said. It is not SAFE! Who would be held responsible if the patient has liver complications? You! Who would be letting this happen? You.

Don't do things you know aren't appropriate. It's your responsibility to advocate for the patient as much as it is to give medications.

(stepping off soapbox now)

I agree with the above absolutely--just to clarify my earlier comments: I would never give it. It's too bad that documentation to CYA seems to be a lot of what we do.

Specializes in Hospital Education Coordinator.

I would not give greater than safe dose. Better to lose your job than your license. BTW, a "safe dose" is for most, but not all, people. People with liver problems probably should have less than the "safe" dose, but that is an MD call.

Specializes in psych, addictions, hospice, education.

I need to add that I read recently that there's been some research being done about Tylenol/acetaminophen. In it, they're finding that taking Tylenol over time has a cumulative effect on the liver. So, if a person takes somewhat less than the maximum per day, the medication could still cause some damage if the person takes it regularly, over awhile.

While an intentional tylenol overdose is different than one under the auspices of a health caregive, the treatment is pretty raunchy, if it's even effective. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And, someone who takes alot of tylenol wouldn't necessarily know he or she had a damaged liver until it's too late.

Can you tell I don't like Tylenol?

Specializes in Oncology, Medical.

I agree that the pain control should be better evaluated if the patient is maxing out his/her PRNs for breakthrough pain day in and day out. It means they're quite simply not getting enough.

Unfortunately, there are doctors that don't get on top of it soon enough. We have one patient who frequently asks for Dilaudid and we asked the MD if she wanted to start a PCA for this patient, but absolutely no change was made to her meds for another couple of weeks *sigh*

If there is anything questionable about the meds I'm giving - regarding doses, drug interactions, etc. - I always ask another nurse or two for ideas, and if they agree that it's questionable, I flag it and notify the MD (or place a note on the pt's chart if it's non-urgent).

I am surprised the MD became upset with the OP simply for questioning an unsafe medication dosage. You're only looking out for the patient's best interest, after all! And it wasn't as if you left the patient in pain after holding the Vicodin. An alternative measure was used to control the pain until the patient's MD could re-evaluate the meds the next day.

1. I'm shocked the MD would want to go over 4G a day.

2. I'm shocked the unit manager would respond that way to you.

No way would I go over the max daily dose with Tylenol. I think you acted exactly the way one would expect a prudent and responsible nurse to act. Personally I like my pt's to have working livers :p.

Specializes in LTC.

No way would I give over 4G tylenol/day. Both MD and manager were wrong.

Specializes in Critical Care.

For use more than a few days, the FDA recommends a limit of 2600mg, so 5 GM isn't just a little over the safe limit. I'm really surprised facilities are still using 500mg combinations, the FDA recommended that these no longer be used almost 4 years ago now.

Specializes in ICU.

I would NEVER administer >4g Tylenol/day. Going by what the unit manager said, then it would have even been ok to administer 6000mg per day?? (Since although he wasn't, the patient could have been receiving the dose 6x per day.) I get nervous even getting near the 4000mg mark...nonetheless over the course of 20 shifts, this patient received more than the max dose of a very liver-toxic drug. I'm confused about where these nurses went to school.

Specializes in Family NP, OB Nursing.

I agree with several comments. First, he's been over the max dose for the past 10 days?! That's crazy! Second, if he is using that much medication for breakthru he needs a higher dose of his maintenance medication. I also agree that his Vicodin could be changed to something else, maybe Norco 7.5/325 or space the Vicodin out to q6h, which really is where it should be anyway.

The doc and charge nurse are wrong. If you would have given that much at my hospital the first time, the pharmacy would have been all over you. In fact, they wouldn't have filled the order. They would have called the doc and informed him that it was over the max daily dose and the order would have been changed.

Specializes in Cath Lab/ ICU.

I would have told the Dr to write an order that *specifically* says, please increase max dose of Tylenol to 5000mg/per. Okay to give today's dose"

And then? Even then? I still wouldn't have done it. I would have told the manager she could give it.

I would have pharmacy involved, my EBP book, my drug book,...all of my references on my side. But I'm a troublemaker, lol.

So I really would have started with, "there's nothing you're going to do, say, or write that's gonna get me to give this pt Tylenol. So let's brainstorm and come up with another med...

Specializes in Med/Surg, DSU, Ortho, Onc, Psych.

No way would I do this.

Do not EVER exceed the safe dose. If necessary, sit down and calculate how much of a particular drug they have had.

it has got nothing to do with what the dr has or hasn't written - YOU are a professional practitioner and I myself would stand there and argue with them as I have argued with doctors in the past.

You NUM should be supporting you as well - does he/she want a patient to go into renal/hepatic failure?

It was the On-Call Dr. that agreed the amount exceeded the safe max of 4000mg. The Regular DR must have know what his reasoning was for allowing this overage. He should change the order to read "Not to exceed 5000mg per day". If you run into this again request the patient's Dr clarify not the on call. In my facility our on-calls can be Dr's, PA's, or NP's. Often they tell me they don't know the patient or what the regular Dr was thinking when he made the order. If you can't get ahold of the regular DR then call the Nurse Supervisor and then document His/Her answer.

Tylenol can cause liver toxicity in any human being at >4g/day. It is never appropriate to be given at a greater quantity. If you ever see an order that can exceed 4g in a day, it is a mistake. And this is a mistake that is made often (but always rectified if brought to the prescriber's attention).

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