Just from reading on here, I've become aware of some of the differences between LPNs and RNs. Some of the things I've read were pushing IV meds and a few other things I can't recall them. But it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot of difference between the pn and rn. Am I wrong? Please fill me in...
I am not a nurse. I've applied to an LPN program...hoping & praying I get in.
Here's my question to the nurses- If there aren't THAT many differences between the 2, why is there such a difference in pay?
Also,I don't understand why an rn can't work as an lpn. If some lpnls can work and do the same things as an rn,(which is a "higher" license,which by that I mean required more schooling) why can't rns do something that requires "less school"?
Oh boy,I'm confusing myself!
In the southeast the lines between the 2 licences are more blurred . In the northeast I knew plain as day what my scope was as an lpn. In the southeast they actually prefer to hire lpns even for supervisory positions. They had an all lpn staff at the ltc facility I applied to,which was confusing to me. I always thought an rn had to be in the building at all times,b/c that was the rule in Nj.(oh,I didn't get the job)
I can't speak to what LPNs are allowed to do in Michigan according to the state, but I can say what they are allowed to do where I work. I work at two different hospitals. At one hospital where I work, LPNs cannot take verbal orders from a doc or push IV meds. This hospital utilizes LPNs on all floors except the ICUs and the ED. The other hospital I work at stopped using LPNs on all floors except the general medical floor (no tele on this floor) and TCU. I don't work directly with any LPNs here, but I believe the only things that they cannot do are push IV meds and draw blood from PICC or central lines. LPNs here can be charge in TCU but not on the GMF.
Here we are trained to practice "as a RN" In long term care facility it is impossible to say an LPN cannot assess, etc. Michigans nurse practice act is very vague, and basically if the "RN" (or director of nursing in my case) teaches you, and signs off on your comptetencies then you have been trained, and are eligible to do more, for example IV meds, Push Meds, etc. As the nurse manager here yes I am a LPN, and I do oversee and manage all of the RNs. I implement and update policies and procedures, educate staff, disciplinary action etc.
Bascially our philosophy here is that a LPN can be just as competent as a RN. I have worked with RNs who I could run circles around, many book smart with no critical thinking skills.
There are many LPN nurse managers our there.
I have handled state surveys on my own, when adminsitration has been out of town, and they have enough confidence in me to handle it, so I take that as a major compliment.
My experience, and the situations I have been able to experience have really allowed me to grow in nursing. I'm not saying I know it all, none of us do, but I have the ability to critically think, and take action as needed, under complete support of the DON.
Our facility has "nurses" we don't allow the RN LPN degration as some facilities do. You are a "charge nurse" when in our facility, and we work with all nurses to get them to the point where they can complete tasks that in other states LPNs cannot do. Not saying every nurse we hire has the ability, and until they have been trained and competencies performed they are not allow to draw blood, or start IVs, hang IV meds etc.
It all depends on where you work, what the facility polices are, what the state nurse practice act says, its different everywhere.
The problem i am trying to understand northup is how can one be trained to be an rn when they dont have a license? im still confused. if i had known that i guess for me all the money i spent on an lpn to rn program was a waste if i could just be trained instead of going to school for a year longer. also,do u supervise Rn's?
I disagree that LPNs have the same amount of education and experience as R.N.s. No disrepect intended, but facts are facts. My dad has been a R.N. for 20 years and he argues with my aunt(who is a LPN) all the time because she thinks she knows as much as he does while working in an allergy clinic. Like, I said no direspect, but that does irritate me when some(not all) LPNs try to take on the role of R.N. There are many things that LPNs cannot do mandated by law. Among other things, they don't have a higher knowledge or education of anatomy, physiology,micro, and maths. She had to call me to spell coccyx(which I would think would be basic enough for most to know). I just don't like the mindset of some (again not all) LPNs who think they know as much. I do respect LPNs who have completed their schooling, but I really believe that nursing students who haven't even graduated yet really have more education. The pay for R.N.s is also a lot higher than that of LPNs. Again, no disrespect. Just wanted to give some facts and my opinion :)
I disagree that LPNs have the same amount of education and experience as R.N.s. No disrepect intended, but facts are facts. My dad has been a R.N. for 20 years and he argues with my aunt(who is a LPN) all the time because she thinks she knows as much as he does while working in an allergy clinic. Like, I said no direspect, but that does irritate me when some(not all) LPNs try to take on the role of R.N. There are many things that LPNs cannot do mandated by law. Among other things, they don't have a higher knowledge or education of anatomy, physiology,micro, and maths. She had to call me to spell coccyx(which I would think would be basic enough for most to know). I just don't like the mindset of some (again not all) LPNs who think they know as much. I do respect LPNs who have completed their schooling, but I really believe that nursing students who haven't even graduated yet really have more education. The pay for R.N.s is also a lot higher than that of LPNs. Again, no disrespect. Just wanted to give some facts and my opinion :)
I have taken Biology, A&P I&II, Micro, Chem, Algebra, Statistics, Sociology, Into and Developmental Psych...which were all prerequisites for my school's LPN program. My school's LPN-RN bridge program is 1 semester...yes it's more education, but not much. It really depends on the school and the education that they provide.
Wow....I was away from the computer this weekend and when I got on here Monday, I didn't see this thread. The title had been changed and I am just now realizing that.
Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.
in ltc it is a different ball game than the hospital ...most nurse managers in ltc are lvn's..don is always a rn....general rule is lvn's can manage rn's in a administrative capacity but never a clinical capacity. however, this is ltc only ...
the problem i am trying to understand northup is how can one be trained to be an rn when they dont have a license? im still confused. if i had known that i guess for me all the money i spent on an lpn to rn program was a waste if i could just be trained instead of going to school for a year longer. also,do u supervise rn's?
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Wow....I was away from the computer this weekend and when I got on here Monday, I didn't see this thread. The title had been changed and I am just now realizing that.
Thanks everyone for posting.
Nursel56- thank you for taking up for me:)
Hey no prob and I'm not even sure why they changed it!!
As to the absolutely silly argument about who knows more about what and when- when it comes to comparing an LPN in an allergy clinic and an RN in med-surg or whatever. . . it's very fair to compare the formal education needed to graduate from the respective schools, but after that it's going to be all over the place depending on the work environment. Heck, even a doctor is subject to that fact of life, which explains why dermatologists out of med school for some years are not going to be such hot stuff at a trauma scene when an experienced Trauma RN or an EMT is present.
Seems to me that there is an assumption here that education doesn't evolve after licensure. Some people freeze dry their brains, only doing enough to get by and get their minimum CE requirements, others are thirsty for and seek out knowledge every single day. I try to be, and hope to work with the latter, no matter where they are on the ladder. :)
Well, that must be a lot different where I live then. The LPN schools here must rip off LPN students b/c they don't get taught all of what you took. The only thing I don't undertand is that I read someone on here said that they were a LPN and put in charge of R.N.s...why is that ? Doesn't make sense to me . What's the point of becoming an R.N., when it's higher education if LPNs are over you...seems kinda odd to me...no offense, but it's complete opposite here.
in ltc it is a different ball game than the hospital ...most nurse managers in ltc are lvn's..don is always a rn....general rule is lvn's can manage rn's in a administrative capacity but never a clinical capacity. however, this is ltc only ...
does that mean an lpn who is a nurse manager can't delegate to an rn?
my area is way different because in nj there has to be an rn in the building all the time.
and I'm not even sure why they changed it!!
:)
smartnurse1982
1,775 Posts
Also,I don't understand why an rn can't work as an lpn. If some lpnls can work and do the same things as an rn,(which is a "higher" license,which by that I mean required more schooling) why can't rns do something that requires "less school"?
Oh boy,I'm confusing myself!
In the southeast the lines between the 2 licences are more blurred . In the northeast I knew plain as day what my scope was as an lpn. In the southeast they actually prefer to hire lpns even for supervisory positions. They had an all lpn staff at the ltc facility I applied to,which was confusing to me. I always thought an rn had to be in the building at all times,b/c that was the rule in Nj.(oh,I didn't get the job)