Trump's 'religious conscience'

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Jun 20, 2019

I still want to know what religion (specifically Christianity) has to do with transgender issues. I don't recall anything in the Bible stating that being transgender is a sin, much less a sin so bad that good Christians need to shun them or otherwise discriminate against them or treat them badly.

I think there are people who are just so uncomfortable with the concept of transgender that they just use their religion as an excuse and cover for their bigotry.

allnurses Guide · Jun 20, 2019

I know few people say this anymore but this was the oath I took when I became a Registered nurse:

"I solemnly pledge myself before God and in the presence of this assembly, to pass my life in purity and to practice my profession faithfully. I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous, and will not take or knowingly administer any harmful drug. I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession, and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping, and all family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling. With loyalty will I endeavor to aid the physician in his work, and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care."

There is no proviso at the end - Unless I disagree with their lifestyle/choices etc...….

Now I realize that Gender is not a lifestyle choice for most but I have a personal distaste for people who go hiking and get lose cause thousands of dollars in search and rescue costs plus what ever care is necessary. I say they got into that mess on their own and I should not have to treat them!

Hppy

allnurses Guide · Jun 20, 2019

7 hours ago, Horseshoe said:
I still want to know what religion (specifically Christianity) has to do with transgender issues. I don't recall anything in the Bible stating that being transgender is a sin, much less a sin so bad that good Christians need to shun them or otherwise discriminate against them or treat them badly.
I think there are people who are just so uncomfortable with the concept of transgender that they just use their religion as an excuse and cover for their bigotry.

I don't see it either! The law as it is written does not say Christians are exempt from performing these procedures. It says that anyone who has a moral or ethical conflict can recuse themselves. There are many ethical non religious reasons why someone might not want to participate in an abortion, vaccines, gender reassignment surgery etc...… It does not mean they are religious zealots. So let's quit with the religious name calling.

While I was raised in the Catholic faith I am no longer a follower. I align with certain Celtic sects and some pagan beliefs. My family who are all Christians have not disowned me nor have they dammed me to the eternal fires of hell. While I sent my son to parochial schools for the quality of education I was not surprised or appalled When he "came out" last week as a Buddhist.

Still even my Pagan beliefs would not condone Abortion as they stress reverence for and consider all life as sacred. So I would not participate in the performance of an abortion because of the loss of human potential it involves. That being said I have cared for many women who have had abortions without qualm.

I hope that makes sense. I think when each person acts within their own conscience bigotry will finally become a footnote in history.

As for LGBTQ issues such as baking wedding cakes and such: A ma a pretty good cake baker/decorator and am thinking of opening a bakery that quietly specializes in such things. Maybe even a whole chain. Imagine the franchise possibilities.

Hppy

MunoRN, RN · Jun 20, 2019

23 hours ago, Asystole RN said:
I can understand your feelings but people make the same arguments when it comes to the ADA, sexual harassment etc. There is a balance to things and the pendulum will tend to swing.
Despite everyone's shock however, these laws have been in place since the 70's at a federal level and have been amended and added to up to 2005 with the Affordable Care Act.
Considering these laws have existed for so long, have you seen any disruptions? Ever heard of any?
This is honestly much ado about nothing due to a slow news cycle in my opinion.
Again, these laws are aimed at the feds and your employers. We get our license from the state and if we act unprofessional or put our patients at risk the state still reserves the right to punish us.

Previously the administrative interpretations of HHS did not include interfering with a state's autonomy to take action against an HCW's license for acting on anti-LGBTQ or other intolerant religious beliefs, but the current HHS stance is that they will withhold all Medicaid and potentially other federal funds for those that violate their administrative rules 'protecting' intolerance.

While the 25 laws the current HHS rules interpret have been around for awhile, many of them leave a lot of leeway for administrative interpretation, which HHS has used to model their current rules on 'religious freedom' laws of 12 states, these laws allow HCWs to refuse care based on a wide variety of religious objections, not limited to abortions or more commonly accepted religious based objections.

vetpharmtech · Jun 20, 2019

2 minutes ago, MunoRN said:
Previously the administrative interpretations of HHS did not include interfering with a state's autonomy to take action against an HCW's license for acting on anti-LGBTQ or other intolerant religious beliefs, but the current HHS stance is that they will withhold all Medicaid and potentially other federal funds for those that violate their administrative rules 'protecting' intolerance.
While the 25 laws the current HHS rules interpret have been around for awhile, many of them leave a lot of leeway for administrative interpretation, which HHS has used to model their current rules on 'religious freedom' laws of 12 states, these laws allow HCWs to refuse care based on a wide variety of religious objections, not limited to abortions or more commonly accepted religious based objections.

It seems to me that more religious freedom means less humanity. This is particularly true with patriarchal religions like Christianity and Islam.

I wonder how LGBTQ patients were treated in the "good old days"

allnurses Guide · Jun 20, 2019

16 minutes ago, vetpharmtech said:
It seems to me that more religious freedom means less humanity. This is particularly true with patriarchal religions like Christianity and Islam.
I wonder how LGBTQ patients were treated in the "good old days"

As I recall from history they were if they dared to be "out" they were beaten, killed, branded and approximately 1 million were sent to the concentration camps with purple triangles sewn to their lapels. We actually have come a long way.

Hppy

BrentRN, PhD · Jun 20, 2019

This has become a long thread but we need to remember that the rules were instituted to appease those who wanted others to tolerate their intolerance.

Oldmahubbard · Jun 20, 2019

I do not personally know any health care professionals who are so intolerant of transgender people, that they would refuse to provide them emergency care. Somewhere in the vast miles that constitute our country, no doubt there are a tiny number of people like this.

Most of the media hoopla is just giving energy to a negative thing.

Certainly such patients, most of the time, can go a mile down the street, and get their care, or their wedding cake.

A couple of short decades from now, this will all sound like the debate about VHS vs Beta.

MunoRN, RN · Jun 20, 2019

18 minutes ago, Oldmahubbard said:
I do not personally know any health care professionals who are so intolerant of transgender people, that they would refuse to provide them emergency care. Somewhere in the vast miles that constitute our country, no doubt there are a tiny number of people like this.
Most of the media hoopla is just giving energy to a negative thing.
Certainly such patients, most of the time, can go a mile down the street, and get their care, or their wedding cake.
A couple of short decades from now, this will all sound like the debate about VHS vs Beta.

I've worked in parts of the country where a concerning number of the nurses I worked with weren't shy about sharing that when they were caring for a patient they felt might be LGTBQ they were conflicted about helping treat their health conditions because God intended for them to have those health conditions as punishment for their sins.

I'm not sure why these patients should have to search around for a more accepting facility when they're having a stroke or MI, but in the areas where these views exist, you'll have to go a lot farther than "a few miles".

allnurses Guide · Jun 20, 2019

Just now, MunoRN said:
I've worked in parts of the country where a concerning number of the nurses I worked with weren't shy about sharing that when they were caring for a patient they felt might be LGTBQ they were conflicted about helping treat their health conditions because God intended for them to have those health conditions as punishment for their sins.

The key here while they felt conflicted they still cared for them. Or at least that's how I read your post.

vetpharmtech · Jun 20, 2019

2 minutes ago, MunoRN said:
I've worked in parts of the country where a concerning number of the nurses I worked with weren't shy about sharing that when they were caring for a patient they felt might be LGTBQ they were conflicted about helping treat their health conditions because God intended for them to have those health conditions as punishment for their sins.
I'm not sure why these patients should have to search around for a more accepting facility when they're having a stroke or MI, but in the areas where these views exist, you'll have to go a lot farther than "a few miles".

Truly disgusting. People who hold such Christian belief should not become nurses at all.

CamMc · Jun 20, 2019

6 minutes ago, MunoRN said:
I've worked in parts of the country where a concerning number of the nurses I worked with weren't shy about sharing that when they were caring for a patient they felt might be LGTBQ they were conflicted about helping treat their health conditions because God intended for them to have those health conditions as punishment for their sins.
I'm not sure why these patients should have to search around for a more accepting facility when they're having a stroke or MI, but in the areas where these views exist, you'll have to go a lot farther than "a few miles".

@hppygr8ful no actually the point is that these patients shouldn’t have to fear going to obtain medical care for fear of being turned away or not being respected. They shouldn’t have to travel “a few mile” which often in cases like this is well more than a few miles because the places turning them down are typically going to be in smaller, rural, areas where there is a strong religious influence. It may have gotten buried in this post, but go back a few, I talked to a transgender woman who was refused to be taken by ambulance because she was trans and broke her leg while in the shower. Yes, not specifically a nurse, but this ruling that is trying to get passed is not geared towards nurses specifically but all healthcare providers. So it is a big deal, everyone said that the trans military ban would never get passed and it did, so don’t try to say that this will never happen.