Trump's 'religious conscience'

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Has anyone heard of this? Its saying that basically ANY healthcare worker has the right as of July 22nd to refuse care to a patient due to the healthcare worker's moral beliefs or religion. I'm so confused. First of all we as healthcare workers are here to help EVERYONE. Most people think it will effect LGBTQ or women, which I can definitely see happening. I mean rapists are against my morals so does that mean I can refuse treatment? I've been looking this up trying to find some clarification.

On the NPR website it states "Last month, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services put out a new rule that "implements full and robust enforcement" of existing laws that protect what the administration calls "conscience rights" for health care workers. The rule is set to go into effect on July 22."

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/06/11/730659035/-patients-will-die-one-county-s-challenge-to-trump-s-conscience-rights-rule

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/politics/legal-challenge-hhs-conscience-objection-rule/index.html

I added two links of articles I have found on it, still confused though. Any thoughts or facts you guys have?

Specializes in Critical Care.
24 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

The key here while they felt conflicted they still cared for them. Or at least that's how I read your post.

They did because otherwise they would lose their jobs and/or their license, the concern with the new HHS administrative rules is that they intend to do away with that.

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25 minutes ago, vetpharmtech said:

Truly disgusting. People who hold such Christian belief should not become nurses at all.

These are not Christian beliefs.

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2 minutes ago, Oldmahubbard said:

These are not Christian beliefs.

The sin concept in your post is not from non Abrahamic religions.

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
14 minutes ago, CamMc said:

@hppygr8ful no actually the point is that these patients shouldn’t have to fear going to obtain medical care for fear of being turned away or not being respected. They shouldn’t have to travel “a few mile” which often in cases like this is well more than a few miles because the places turning them down are typically going to be in smaller, rural, areas where there is a strong religious influence. It may have gotten buried in this post, but go back a few, I talked to a transgender woman who was refused to be taken by ambulance because she was trans and broke her leg while in the shower. Yes, not specifically a nurse, but this ruling that is trying to get passed is not geared towards nurses specifically but all healthcare providers. So it is a big deal, everyone said that the trans military ban would never get passed and it did, so don’t try to say that this will never happen.

It's unclear which of my posts you are referring to and I generally refrain from calling others out as I prefer the free discussion of Ideas. In almost 40 years in healthcare 1st as a Candy striper (Anyone remember those) Then an ambulance driver, Then a Registered Nurse I have never seen the kind of discrimination talked about in this thread and I have worked North, South, East and West as well as parts of our Southern Border. I have seen isolated incidents of stupidity but not this huge problem. Again we should all feel free to share ideas without calling each other out or resorting to name calling but As Albert Dumas stated in the Cont of Monte Cristo "People are the only obstacle to Ideas."

Hppy

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Specializes in Critical Care.

I would agree with you, however there are large portions of America's "Christian" population who firmly hold that homosexuality or any irregularity from "normal" binary gender identity is a sin according to the bible, and that the bible explains that God's response to these sins is to cause these people harm (ie Sodom and Gomorrah) as punishment for these sins, which they believe would include health afflictions, so it would be going against God's will to undue these health afflictions in any way or even to just help relieve their suffering.

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2 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

I would agree with you, however there are large portions of America's "Christian" population who firmly hold that homosexuality or any irregularity from "normal" binary gender identity is a sin according to the bible, and that the bible explains that God's response to these sins is to cause these people harm (ie Sodom and Gomorrah) as punishment for these sins, which they believe would include health afflictions, so it would be going against God's will to undue these health afflictions in any way or even to just help relieve their suffering.

I don't understand what purpose a Christian becomes a nurse for. When I am sick, I come to a nurse for treatment of the condition I am informed by a doctor. I don't come to her to be "saved from my sin", especially when I don't share her faith.

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@hppygr8ful sorry, was not meant to call you out, the formatting on this forum is atrocious. You had replied to a post by munoRN saying that the key is that despite the beliefs of the nurses who feel they shouldn't care for LGBTQ people because their problems are due to their sins, that the key is they were treated. I do agree I'm glad they were treated, but LGBTQ people shouldn't have to worry about where they can obtain healthcare. They shouldn't have to worry about if they will be turned away for nothing other than being themselves. I understand you may have never encountered this which is great, but with these rules potentially being put into place, it will make it a lot easier for people to openly discriminate and refuse care.

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I am an old, old lady, but I can recall some awkward encounters with healthcare professionals 40 years ago, because I was a young, sexually active woman, and not married.

Nobody ever exactly refused me care, but the experience was much more unpleasant than it had to be.

I got "attitude" from one or two doctors.

I live in NY, haha

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

I think part of the problem is that some people go into nursing on a mission to save other's. Some of that comes from a religious perspective as many nurses in history were recruited from religious orders (monks and nuns in Medieval Europe).

Such people usually had the time as well as the space to maintain a garden and apothecary. These rules have been in place since the 1950's so this is nothing new and people are using agendas on both sides to misinterpret the facts.

Years ago when I first stared nursing I was in L&D. We had a female couple who had a baby by AI and it also became a C-section. While LGBTQ couples have always been around It was still somewhat rare to have a couple having a baby in our small rural community. In fact it was so rare that our nurse manager asked all of us if anyone had a problem caring for this couple and their baby. One nurse said and I quote "I'll do it! It's no skin of my nose if they burn in hell." So I ultimately took the assignment and when asked I said their just parents who need care and learn the in's and out's of caring for a baby. I taught the birthmother to breast feed and we did diaper changes, baths etc... together. Back then I was still a Christian but the version I was raised by stressed tolerance and human kindness.

No one should be forced to have to seek healthcare far from home because of who they are and no nurse should feel forced to act outside his/her conscience.

Hppy

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

Can we move on to another topic now this running in circles is making me dizzy!

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There are parts of this country, the red states, where I just wouldn't live, for many reasons.

Religious beliefs elevates some people, and makes others into despots.

It seems unfair, but my advice to folks who are not comfortable there, is to work on moving.

60 years later, we still have African American people being shot by police for some minor infraction, or no infraction at all.

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1 minute ago, Oldmahubbard said:

There are parts of this country, the red states, where I just wouldn't live, for many reasons.

Religious beliefs elevates some people, and makes others into despots.

It seems unfair, but my advice to folks who are not comfortable there, is to work on moving.

60 years later, we still have African American people being shot by police for some minor infraction, or no infraction at all.

I am convinced that when Christianity is booted out of our country, bigotry against LGBTQ patients will drop significantly.

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