Trouble with IV starts on Older Adults

Nurses General Nursing

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Hello all -

I am seeking your advice on how to start IVs on difficult sticks, preferably older Adults with rolling veins. I work in a setting where I start IVs, access ports, and draw blood. Our patient population is cancer patients and those in the process of being diagnosed, as well as genetic testing for families of cancer patients. I've only been with the company several weeks but have been a nurse 3 years. I did the occasional IV start prior to working for this company but not all day every day! I'm doing pretty well, usually 5/7 or 6/8, so missing approximately two a day. Every single time these patients have been older adults over 80 with fragile, rolling veins. My preceptor and crew is awesome and very helpful but I'd like to get some tips and tricks from those nurses outside of work.

We start IVs for scans and chemotherapy infusions. For scans, we can use 22's and 24's that are power injectable. Occasionally we have to use a 20 in the AC if they are getting an angio. The equipment I mostly use is the BD Diffusics 22 and 24, and then the BD Insyte in 20, 22, and 24.

Using ultrasound to insert is not an option - I'll just grab someone, usually my preceptor, who gets them every time. She's the vein whisperer, and I listen to what she has to say, but she says it will just come with time. I already see myself getting better, but I was just wondering if any experienced nurses out there have any thoughts.

I wanted to second the advice you already received about not using a tourniquet. I hardly ever use a tourniquet on my more elderly patients, and I think it really helps with avoiding "blown" veins. The first time or two I tried it, it felt wrong, as though I was omitting a very important step. However, it works wonders! Good luck!

Specializes in Tele, ICU, Staff Development.

Try not using a tourniquet at all. Once I stopped using a tourniquet on elderly patients, voila! the fragile veins quit blowing!

Oops I see this tip has already been shared. Sorry. So I'll add a hearty endorsement. It works!

Skin is not taut so holding the skin down with a little bit of pressure helps; I looked at my preceptor technique as a new nurse in 1996 and just started doing them all of the time, putting in IVs for others etc...so I would start them at least daily, you will be the 'vein whisperer' too.

Specializes in Med-Tele; ED; ICU.
About half the the ones that I have trouble with I end up blowing. I get the flash and then start to pull back but I must move or something when I'm advancing the catheter.

A couple things to consider:

1) If the veins are already visible/palpable, go very light on the tourniquet or eschew it altogether because the elevated pressure in the vein can result in it blowing.

2) Be decisive and, once you're going for it, get in quickly. A lot of the older folks are anticoagulated and will grow amazingly huge hematomas if you tarry at all. Additionally, if you're going slowly, there's this small window of time during which the bevel has just pricked the vein - which then starts leaking, or even blows - before you ever get your catheter in place.

3) If the veins are rolling a lot, try a lateral approach to the vein so that you pin it with the needle rather than chasing it around from the top.

4) If you get a flash and think you're in, but pull the needle and don't see any blood and/or can't advance the catheter, very slowly withdraw the catheter and watch for a sudden flow of blood (and be ready to tamponade). I'm not sure why but often when I do this, I can then advance the catheter into place (though sometimes leaving a local hematoma at the site).

5) I prefer chemical heat packs to blankets, etc... they're much warmer and result in better venodilation.

Everyone has different techniques. I've seen BP cuffs or ace wraps instead of tourniquets. I also have some nurse that don't use a tourniquet when they blow. It takes practice and some people are just naturals. It sounds like you are doing very well really.

Specializes in Flight, ER, Transport, ICU/Critical Care.

I've had luck with releasing the IV catheter from the IV stylet (needle) without breaking sterility by rotating it (the cath) or slightly advancing it a fraction of a mm, then resetting it to where it should be PRIOR to insertion. This is controversial (I've been told) and should be done in a a very careful manner as not to shear the catheter -- very bad things can result if you do. Some IV systems will prohibit this by design, but the "seal" on catheters to needles can make it tough to advance "sticky" caths in fragile sticks.

Also, most folks tend to hold the catheter far too angled to the puncture. You should be at a 15-20 degree angle to the puncture and the "c" method of holding the puncture area taut is sound advice.

After you get flash, level advance needle angio set (parallel to skin just about 1/32-1/4" depending on the patient size) then advance catheter slowly while holding area taut and then withdrawing needle. Attach extension set. Boom you did it!!!

It is a numbers game. You get good the more you do. Period.

After, say, 10,000 you will rock the IV world. I promise. Kidding.

1,000 will make you a rock star!!

And every one you miss gets you closer to getting the next one right.

Keep at it.

Regarding difficult IV starts. In my 35 years, if possible wrap the arm/hand in a warm blanket and place in a dependent position for about 5 minutes. Yes I have missed some.

I love the tips here. I work in skilled nursing on a sub acute rehab unit so I'd say 90% of our patients are over 75 and trying to find good veins on some of them is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I think the advice "practice makes perfect" is the best advice here. Many RNs at my facility are scared to try to start a line for fear of missing, thing is, on an 80 year old lady with poor skin turgor who rarely drinks as much fluid as they should, you're gonna miss a few times before you get it right. Don't feel bad, just apologize and grab someone more experienced if you miss the first time. I find many of these patients are used to nurses having trouble sticking them and are very understanding of our woes.

What seems to work best for me is, as soon as I get flash back, I stop advancing the needle, and then slowly advance the catheter with my pointer finger while pulling the needle back with my thumb and middle finger. What a previous poster said about going through the vein is sage advice, I can't tell you how many times I got flash back when I first started only to see a hematoma forming seconds later. Don't advance the needle anymore than necessary. I know nursing school teaches us to advance a couple more mm after we get flash back but in the elderly this nearly always causes you to go through the other side of the vein.

Also, whenever we get new IV start needles I haven't used before, I'll grab one and open it up to see how it works. Every needle has a different method for releasing the catheter from the needle and I don't want to poke a patient, get flashback, and then realize I have no idea how to separate the catheter from the hub.

Don't beat yourself up about the misses. There's a learning curve to nursing they never teach you about in school. It all comes with time, just keep practicing.

one technique i use on elderly patients with lots of loose skin/rolling veins, (works best for me on upper arm cephalic or forearm) is to wrap my left hand around the underside of the arm, palm up, so that my thumb and middle finger meet directly over the target vein, (imagine the grip for pumping a shotgun). following this, I pull enough tension on the skin with my middle finger and thumb to keep the skin taught, while pressing my fingers gently down on either side of the vein, i find this stabilizes the vein and provides good visualization, when i do this, i use a very shallow approach and sometimes without a tourniquet, it's not always the right way to go, but it's great for the folks whose veins are all over the place.

Specializes in Emergency.

I'm printing out this entire thread, what a great opportunity to learn from years and years of nursing experience!

Specializes in Urgent Care, Oncology.
Are you advancing the catheter a bit more after you get your initial flashback and before you pull the needle back to thread the catheter? I need to know this so I can give you targeted advice. I have some tips that will help but need to know at what point you are having difficulty.

Yes, I do advance the catheter after my initial flashback.

Specializes in Urgent Care, Oncology.
It sounds like you are doing well, actually.

I like skin fairly taut at (what will be) the puncture site if I anticipate "rolling" veins or an issue with the vein being mobile under the skin. As your dexterity with the procedure improves, you'll find ways to stabilize the vessel so it can't move away from you. I use the lateral edge of my left (non-dominant) hand to gently pull traction proximally, then left thumb and index finger on either side of my intended insertion site, and use my right pinky to pull traction distally (toward the hand) while right thumb and index finger hold my catheter. So, if I'm concerned that my only really viable vessel is too mobile, I basically make it so that it can't push or roll away from me in any direction. It requires lots of practice and the dexterity that comes with practice, though.

You mentioned being too gentle with your prep. Is there a chance you are also being "too gentle" (slow...) with the actual stick and sometimes pushing the vein away from you as you attempt to enter it? Even if it only moves a little, you increase the chances of nicking instead of puncturing...

The biggest area of 'failure' I observe with newer people is in advancing the catheter following positive blood return. I believe in a lot of the cases people actually go all the way through the vein by unintentionally advancing the needle instead of only advancing the catheter. This will come with time and focusing on NOT advancing the needle any further and only advancing the catheter once in the vein. I think a lot of times people just go too deep - they often report that "I got blood return but couldn't advance it" or "there must've been a valve"...often they are simply through the vein and although they saw a 'flash' when they went through, now the catheter won't advance because its tip is no longer in the vein.

Good luck!

PS - If you haven't sat down and examined both the types of catheters you are using, played around with how the catheters slide off the stylets, etc., I think it would be a useful exercise. I prefer the Insyte to the Diffusics just because of years of experience with Insyte. The mechanics of these two feel very different to me, and Diffusics really runs the risk of the operator inadvertently holding on to the portion that needs to slide forward, instead of having fingers only on the grip. Then it's rough/choppy to advance. But that's just me. My point is, it's a good idea to visualize the mechanics of both styles.

I have been working on holding the skin more taut on rolling veins with both hands. I also have been using 24s on those with more fragile veins.

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