transgender nurse (transvestite)

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jan 17, 2004

Now thats a thought Gwenith

PMHNP10 · Jan 17, 2004

Originally posted by sbic56
Psych evaluation is not a part of the admission process to nursing school.

sbic, I respectfully disagree in part. True, and thankfully so, psych eval is not a part of the admission process. However, in TX, it is very much a part of the licensure process. The following are excerpts from the TX NPA.

213.29. Criteria and Procedure Regarding Intemperate Use and Lack of Fitness in Eligibility and Disciplinary Matters.

(a) A person desiring to obtain or retain a license to practice professional nursing shall provide evidence of current sobriety and fitness consistent with this rule.

(b) Such person shall provide a sworn certificate to the Board stating that he/she has read and understands the requirements for licensure as a registered nurse and that he/she has not:

(1) within the past five years, become addicted to or treated for the use of alcohol or any other drug; or

(2) within the past five years, been diagnosed with, treated or hospitalized for schizophrenia and/or other psychotic disorders, bi-polar disorder, paranoid personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder or borderline personality disorder. (6/99)

© If a registered nurse is reported to the Board for intemperate use, abuse of drugs or alcohol, or diagnosis of or treatment for chemical dependency; or if a person is unable to sign the certification in subsection (b) of this section, the following restrictions and requirements apply:

(4) Those persons who have been diagnosed with, treated, or hospitalized for the disorders mentioned in subsection (b) of this section shall execute an authorization for release of medical, psychiatric, and treatment records.

(d) It shall be the responsibility of those persons subject to this rule to submit to and pay for an evaluation by a professional approved by the executive director to determine current sobriety and fitness. The evaluation shall be limited to the conditions mentioned in subsection (b) of this section.

(g) With respect to mental illness in eligibility, disciplinary, and renewal matters, the executive director is authorized to propose conditional orders for individuals who have experienced mental illness within the past five years provided:

(1) the individual presents reliable and verifiable evidence of having functioned in a manner consistent with the behaviors required of nurses under the Nursing Practice Act and Board rules for at least the previous twelve consecutive months; and

(2) licensure limitations/stipulations and/or peer assistance program participation can be implemented which will ensure that patients and the public are protected until the individual has attained a five-year term of controlled behavior and consistent compliance with the requirements of the Nursing Practice Act and Board rules.

Each state differs, so I was just speaking because I know having a history of psychiatric disorders requires some compliance to TPAPNs guidlines. And as I previously posted, GID is a psychiatric disorder (per DSM IV), so I believe that this person wishing to become an RN should be made aware of this. If GID applies, it could certainly save alot of headache at the time of sitting for the NCLEX to deal with the issues at jump.

athomas91 · Jan 17, 2004

in re-reading the posts of the OP - i find that her concern (correct me if i am wrong) is not in the fact that this student is transgender - although she admits that this is an unusual circumstance for her.... her concern seemed to stem from the fact that this student was changing identities on a wkly basis (man one wk/ woman the next) and that even when dressed as a woman - still had facial hair and designating features....again i reiterate - although most of us have absolutely no problem with transgendered individuals - the majority of our patients will - and when little old ladies start yelling at administration - they will look for reasons...they always do...as well as the other students...will they complain that this person is treated differently due to the transgender issues....as an instructor - these are valid concerns...perhaps if the individual finished transformation prior to pt care it would alleviate the concern - as then - closed minded patients would make trouble.....i have said it many times on this post - we need to deal in reality!!

NurseMikki · Jan 17, 2004

Originally posted by kwagner_51
This is strictly my OPINION!! The Instructor does have rights. It could very well be against her religion. How can she justify, teacching someone whom she knows is living in sin? Doesn't that violate her beliefs?

QUOTE]
Unless the instructor teaches at a religious university, her religious beliefs do not come into effect. I'm sure she wouldn't have so many "issues" teaching a student that is pregnant and not married, or that is living in "sin". Please don't try to make this a religious arguement, I beleive god said we should love our fellow man and that final judgement was His job, not ours.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Jan 17, 2004

sbic, I respectfully disagree in part. True, and thankfully so, psych eval is not a part of the admission process. However, in TX, it is very much a part of the licensure process. The following are excerpts from the TX NPA.

I realize requirements vary from state to state, but, I am suprised to see that psychiatric diagnosis can prevent someone from obtaining a nursing license. That just doesn't seem right to me.

CCU NRS · Jan 17, 2004

Originally posted by mercyteapot
I could agree with all the posters who are counselling the rest of us to give nursecathy the benefit of the doubt if she hadn't tacked on the last line in her post: "What about my rights?" To me, this sums up her attitude. Which rights could she possibly be talking about? The right to only teach those students that look and behave the way she thinks they "should"? Asking that question convinced me that her concerns are not about the well being of the student and the class dynamic, but about her "rights" to prejudge her students and to not have to teach students she's uncomfortable with, and the fact is, she *doesn't* have those rights.

Op's first post

I am a Practical Nursing Instructor. I have had a transgender accepted into my program. He/she is a cross dresser, presents as a female but has male sex organs. I had no control over this person getting in based on numbers only. What are your thoughts on this issue? Should we allow a nurse to take care of the patients who misrepresents their sex? I feel that it is wrong. Nursing is much too personal at times.

As you can see she did not mention her rights and was simply asking for the opinions of fellow nurses. Their opinion as to whether misrepresentation of Gender is right or wrong pertainiing to Pt care?

There were a couple of friendly posts and she clarified a little more clearly her fears.

"I really agree that there is nothing that should be done to prevent her from being a nurse. She says she will not use a bathroom. She is trying to become female by taking hormones, I think. I have not personally talked to her, yet. Do I allow her to dress as a woman? Which restroom? Do the patients have a right to know (ok, I know the answer--they really don't know about any of us) How would you feel about a transvestite taking care of you"

She was asking for assistance in dealing with a trying situation and hopefully her Brothers and Sisters in the field working everyday might have experiences to share and honest opinions about how they would feel if a transgendered nurse walked in and said Hello my name is Cathy and I will be your nurse today!

A few more posts and she is being informed that this person is a human being and should be afforded all rights a human should recieve. I have not noticed that she has said anything other than this herself.

"I am savvy regarding cultural diversity and do not consider this a "cultural issue". I am concerned about this persons welfare and feel that he will be treated less than well at this hospital by both staff and patients. I am also a patient advocate and I know that last year this person would be male one day and female the next. Would you feel comfortable with this person providing care to your private areas? Be honest. It is easy to say, "He has rights" and other statements that sound like the familiar soapbox jargon but can you really be totally honest about what kind of nurse you want for your most personal needs. I have a vision of my preference. I feel that he/she should complete the change process before entering nursing. Why should all society change to protect the rights of a few deviants? What about my rights?"

After this simple post she was flamed repeatedly for many different reasons. The use of the word deviant because some felt that word had negative conotations. Some because she as an instructor does not have rights!When she returned and found that her fellow nurse were about to burn her at the stake.

This is a person that came seeking help with a problem she didn't fully understand. The issue was lost on many levels. I noted from her profile she was in south Georgia so IMO she is very studious to be concerned because I would feel that there is a very real possibility that this student could not only be harassed and made fun of but actually physically abused by Pts, family members or just anyone that notices Him/her and is prejudiced enough to want to take action. In south Georgia there is still a lot or racial prejudice and anyplace where feelings such as these are still strong you can bet that different people such as a transgendered person will be persecuted. Her rights are many and various her right to teach a class that will not be disrupted by falmboyant behavior, hmmmmm someone that is dressing in female clothes one day and malse the next, yep qualifies for me. Here right to be able to honestly represent her students to the Pts they will care for, Kathy/Keith hmmm do I explain this is a mlae nurse to the ninety year old woman for who he will be caring, is this an unfair issue perhaps but no more unfair than the position she has been placed in because of this issue. Her right to her own feeling and comfort level about this persona and this issue, yes she is the instructor, but this does not make her less of a human being either most of us that do not understand transgender behavior and that do not see transgendered people reguarly are made somewhat uncomfortable by this.

So Ibeleive she has rights and I beleive she has valid concerns and I beleive she was just seeking some FRIENDLY advice.

I for one feel nursecathy deserves apologies from many people that just jumped onto the wagon of hatred to give her a smack down because she was cxoncerned abotu the issue and all the circumstances surrounding the issue!

LydiaNN · Jan 17, 2004

My mistake, it was actually in post number 8 that she asked the question about her rights.

mattsmom81 · Jan 17, 2004

I agree some here should apologise to the OP.

Unfortunately, in today's world when someone attempts to discuss anything outside the designated politically correct margins, the PC police are quick to descend and find fault.

In order to grow and learn we must feel free to discuss our experiences and feelings about new situations, bounce things off one another honestly. Bigotry can develop when this is prevented, IMHO.

LydiaNN · Jan 17, 2004

Meant to add more to my previous post. She didn't mention her rights until post number 8, but it certainly sounded like she was alluding to them in her op to me. I haven't flamed her, but I do think she is wrong. Especially legally. I also think she's foolish to be posting here. If her student were to read these posts, s/he could easily find a good lawyer to make a case that s/he is discriminating against this student, whether she is or not. We all know how the legal system works, and it isn't always fair. It is only prudent not to set yourself up for trouble. If she really wanted advice, it would be better to seek it from a respected mentor than to post on an open bulletin board, where any reasonable person would know that not all the responses would be kind.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 17, 2004

Originally posted by mattsmom81

In order to grow and learn we must feel free to discuss our experiences and feelings about new situations, bounce things off one another honestly. Bigotry can develop when this is prevented, IMHO.

This is one of the most intelligent things said on this thread, and a POV many of us can learn from- myself included.

CCURN,

As far as the word "Deviant" is concerned, please understand that unless you've been called a deviant at some point in your own life, it might be hard to understand why some of us get upset at the word and take it in a negative connotation. Repeatedly posting the definition does nothing but invalidate others' feelings on this word, and its personal meaning to those of us to whom it has been directed. I know the definition of the word, but it doesn't make me feel any differently about it. On that note, I don't necessarily agree that its use should cause me to make judgements toward a person who uses it, either.

CCU NRS · Jan 17, 2004

Originally posted by lgflamini
This is one of the most intelligent things said on this thread, and a POV many of us can learn from- myself included.

CCURN,
As far as the word "Deviant" is concerned, please understand that unless you've been called a deviant at some point in your own life, it might be hard to understand why some of us get upset at the word and take it in a negative connotation. Repeatedly posting the definition does nothing but invalidate others' feelings on this word, and its personal meaning to those of us to whom it has been directed. I know the definition of the word, but it doesn't make me feel any differently about it. On that note, I don't necessarily agree that its use should cause me to make judgements toward a person who uses it, either.

Thank you that is all I am saying. I consider my self to be something of a writer and I use words to incite feeling often and I can see how such a word is derisive to some but I just found it very shallow of some of the posters to attack this person over its use. The thing I am really trying to foster here is the ability to express your feelings and thoughts without tearing down the other guy. This person was having a "crisis" and seeking a little help and for her trouble was called prejudice and unfeeling and told she should not be allowed to be an instructor etc. I usually premise all of my posts by adding in my opinion. This is free to each and every one of us, the right to express our opinion...yes even if you feel the need to express it by calling someone else prejudice whom you have never met and have only read a very small bit of information from or about. My point is that we (yes I have been guilty probably even in this thread) for some reason have a tendencey to become enraged and outraged and tear down the thoughts and feeling of others when we should really all ban together as nurses and be kind and caring of one another and supportive even and especially when one of our number is having trouble with an issue that they can not find satisfactory information or opinions about in other forums.

I appreciate all the posters that did keep it impersonal in as far as not insulting others. When you begin insulting others then you are creating strife and animosity, the OP did not actually insult this student she was just concerned about many issues surrounding the situation.

Mercyteapot you are probably absolutely correct in that it is a very touchy subject and perhaps she should not have brought it to this forum for exposure and perhaps someone should have just posted that early on and reminded her of legalities and to seek confidential information perhaps from a professional in the psychaitric field.

CCU NRS · Jan 17, 2004

Originally posted by mattsmom81
I agree some here should apologise to the OP.

Unfortunately, in today's world when someone attempts to discuss anything outside the designated politically correct margins, the PC police are quick to descend and find fault.

In order to grow and learn we must feel free to discuss our experiences and feelings about new situations, bounce things off one another honestly. Bigotry can develop when this is prevented, IMHO.

Bravo! Bravo! CCU NRS give Mattsmom81 and standing Ovation!!!!