Too many absences for transfer

[LanaBanana]

Recently we have had several nurses on our med-surg floor apply for another job within the facility who have been refused an interview due to too many absences. One of those nurses was a 11p-7a charge nurse who was having health problems from her working overnights 5 nights awake and being unable to sleep and also had a parent die as well as her husband having surgery. I just applied for a different job and got a call from HR advising me that I had too many absences to be considered for an interview even though the medical director of the clinic I was applying for asked me to apply. I was told that 3 absences in a year in the maximum. THREE???? Seriously? They also counted days that I was off from a work-related injury. I had in-vitro fertilization this spring and my manager was aware that I was having it. It's not something that you can just schedule on the calendar so I had to call in, but was able to give them a few days notice as we got going with the process.

I was just shocked to find out that 3 absences in a year is the max. The lady from HR told me that she might have been able to accept 4-5, but I had 8 plus 2 from a work-related injury.

I asked to see a report of those absences because I know of at least 5 other nurses who have been told the same thing. She said it's a big problem with staff from our floor (general medical). Well duh. We have a higher nurse:patient ratio, patients who are sick (and probably more contagious than we know) instead of having a chole or something, and also have peds. Our nurse satisfaction rate is really low so I think that contributes to call-ins.

Frustrating thing for me is that I am PRN and have been asked to work 40+ hours frequently. I spent 6 months last year working as 3-11 charge nurse until we could hire and orient a new one - and even oriented the new one! I am willing to pick up shifts when called. But that isn't even considered. So, I think I will go back to actually working PRN hours for a few months - doing my 1 day a week and 1 weekend a month. That should eliminate some of the need for calling in sick (I don't get sick as often when working less). And hopefully get back to an allowed # again. But now we're working on adoption and I'm sure things will come up with that require me to be off work.

I'm just wondering what other facilities allow for absences before being allowed to transfer? Or what is considered "acceptable"? And are you usually counseled about those absences or told at the time you try to transfer????

[roser13, ASN, RN]

I would do 2 things:

I would ask HR to read the policy that states that you are ineligible for transfer. Since when can a unit tell a PRN employee where they can and cannot work?

And I would tell the manager of the other unit (who asked you to apply) that you have not been allowed to apply. HR doesn't run the hospital - they only think they do:lol2: Perhaps the other manager can intervene.

I wonder if your current unit has requested that HR put the brakes on any transfer requests? If so, the other manager might be able to cut through the BS.

[classicdame, MSN, EdD]

every rule has an exception. I agree with above post. We have no rule as it pertains to transfers.

[vampiregirl, BSN, RN]

I've worked at places that require you be in "good standing" to transfer, but the criteria was always clearly spelled out including # of absences that were acceptable. I don't believe that I've ever heard of worker's comp absences being counted though. Have you checked your employee handbook?

[86toronado, BSN, RN]

At my facility you get written up after 6 absences in a year, but I've never heard of it being a part of the transfer policy. But then the most I've ever called in was 3 times in a year. But working 3-12's helps. I'm just very rarely ill on a work day.

[amarilla, RN]

We are allowed three 'unexcused' absences for the year, but if you're full time, you can have up to six including sick time. More than 3 days out in a row needs a doctor's note / explanation and you have to be seen and cleared by employee health to return to work. Our annual evals include review of absences and a scolding if you've had more than 2, (they consider this a warning.) 8 absences would get you fired on my floor and I've seen two nurses let go this year for same.

We can put in for transfer but evals and absences are part of the requirement to be in 'good standing' to be considered.

You wrote that you will be going back to per diem standing and are anticipating days off work due to a personal situation; honestly, that rubs me the wrong way as a fellow per diem RN on a busy (and often understaffed) med-surg floor. If you can pick your schedule, you have a responsibility to your unit to work those days, (crappy floor or not). If you find out that you can't work a day, try to switch or offer another shift, but why throw your coworkers under the bus working short on one of the few days you've scheduled? If you need time off for a personal situation, perhaps you should go out on FMLA and take the time you need.

Good luck.

[Illyra01]

Our hospital has a policy that allow's 6 "occurences" a year, but if you're sick two days in a row for instance that is one occurence, however if you are sick, come to work a day and then call in again, that would be two. After the 6 a diciplinary process starts and after 9 I think you can be fired, although I don't know of anyone who has had this happen. 3 seems overly restrictive, especially if you consider every abscence as counting against you. I agree with the above poster that if you were asked to apply by the other unit manager, you should notify them of the situation, they may have the ability to work around HR. As far as transfering, our in house transfers are governed by seniority, but if you have any "disciplinary" issues that would be a valid reason to not hire the most senior person and move to the next on the list. However as far as I know this is left up to the hiring unit not HR to determine. Good luck getting this straightened out.

As a side note, working less will reduce your call ins, but may increase it for those who work more to cover. It sounds like they need to address the morale problem sooner rather than later, you might reference this issue when you tell them why you're cutting back your hours. Suggest they do some creative thinking to get people to want to come to work!

[WIN007]

Our hospital has a policy that allow's 6 "occurences" a year, but if you're sick two days in a row for instance that is one occurence, however if you are sick, come to work a day and then call in again, that would be two. After the 6 a diciplinary process starts and after 9 I think you can be fired, although I don't know of anyone who has had this happen. 3 seems overly restrictive, especially if you consider every abscence as counting against you. I agree with the above poster that if you were asked to apply by the other unit manager, you should notify them of the situation, they may have the ability to work around HR. As far as transfering, our in house transfers are governed by seniority, but if you have any "disciplinary" issues that would be a valid reason to not hire the most senior person and move to the next on the list. However as far as I know this is left up to the hiring unit not HR to determine. Good luck getting this straightened out.

As a side note, working less will reduce your call ins, but may increase it for those who work more to cover. It sounds like they need to address the morale problem sooner rather than later, you might reference this issue when you tell them why you're cutting back your hours. Suggest they do some creative thinking to get people to want to come to work!

I agree with everything you said. 3 seems ridiculous but six is reasonable, barring serious medical/family leaves. I don't think they can use FMLA anyway so it pays to get that documentation if that's what's going on. Repeat: Get your FMLA documentation from your doctor.

I especially agree with your (and other persons) points on the call-in's increasing stress on others. Unfortunately there ARe the abusers. I used to know a young nurse who would fall behind on her class work then call in sick , not do her class work anyway, call in sick again two or three hours before her shift. Of course then when she WAS sick she had no absencses left and went to work sick as a dog caring for post-surgicals. Throw in with that she also was in posession of one of the most indifferent attitudes towards infection control I've seen. I truly felt disgusted to the point I couldn't be friends with her anymore. I can understand why hospitals protect their nurses and patients from persons like that through policy.

[Chin up]

I think the point is being missed....they are doing this, because they can. It is not about fairness, red tape, who asked, who didn't....it is only about the lack of power by you, the RN. This crap will keep happening and I fear will get worse, until the profession pulls together and says, enough is enough....no justice, no peace!

[LanaBanana]

You wrote that you will be going back to per diem standing and are anticipating days off work due to a personal situation; honestly, that rubs me the wrong way as a fellow per diem RN on a busy (and often understaffed) med-surg floor. If you can pick your schedule, you have a responsibility to your unit to work those days, (crappy floor or not). If you find out that you can't work a day, try to switch or offer another shift, but why throw your coworkers under the bus working short on one of the few days you've scheduled? If you need time off for a personal situation, perhaps you should go out on FMLA and take the time you need.

Good luck.

Yes, I am anticipating having to take time off work IF we have an adoption come through. But being that it will be adoption and not me having a baby, I will have no control over when we know about the availability of a baby or when the birth mother goes in to labor. If we know in advance then I will arrange my time off and do FMLA. But as would be the same as any female nurse who goes in to labor, I don't have control over it. Our nursing morale is very bad and we try to trade when possible. But when health problems arise - such as during the IVF when I wasn't expecting allergic reactions to the hormones or a continuous headache requiring 8 hours in the ER to control - we don't always have a chance to switch. Also, we have nurses who are already working a relatively unsafe number of days in a row (up to 8) and aren't able to switch because they're already scheduled and we're short-staffed to start. I don't go in to a schedule planning to call-in and anticipate my call-ins decreasing a lot now that all the hormone stuff is over.

No other profession has a limit of 3 sick days per year - heck, most are allowed at least 7-10 plus personal days. When you are working 5 days a week it's really unrealistic to expect only 3 sick or personal days per year. Yes, for some that's not a problem, but when you're exposed to every flu, RSV, gastroenteritis patient you have to expect some nurses to get ill.

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

I know other people who have been denied transfer on my floor. Part of it was probably staffing issues to hold onto the staff already on the floor and several were held back over sick days.

When they were denied transfer they all just got jobs at other facilities outside the hospital network. At our system people do not get raises when they transfer as they would if they left for another hospital system.

Maybe you should consider trying a different hospital out of the network and start over. They can't stop your transfer then. Just a thought.

[SeeTheMoon]

I see these kind of posts all the time and frankly, it scares me. (I'm still in school.) I mean don't get me wrong, I don't believe in laying out of work for the fun of it, but I have a 2 1/2 year old, and stuff happens. And God forbid you ever get sick...