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To vaccinate or not to vaccinate, that is the question

Nurses Toon   (7,865 Views 144 Comments)
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33 minutes ago, SNJ_nurse said:

also, immunizations ARE mandatory and legally enforced.

Cite your source.

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They are mandatory for public school attendance, many jobs/ schools (like nursing), etc etc...

it is wrong to say legally, you are right, but effectively it’s very hard to navigate around them. For me (going into nursing), it’s impossible,

i don’t know that adding “legally” negates the rest of my points, but I do appreciate your point

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Sorry for replying in this way, not sure how to reply directly.

To the individual that stated the lyme vaccine was pulled because it wasn’t making money, how can you say that and not see that something is seriously wrong with how we do things? Why would I trust that kind of decision making?

regarding the person who said they were being facetious about rusty nails, I really fail to see how you don’t understand why urbanization greatly reduced tetanus. Also, tetanus has NOTHING to do with herd immunity, so why are we mandating people to get it? If I want to risk it, it should be my choice.

Still, I think vaccinations are a good thing. But it’s clear that it’s not as clear as many make it seem. For all of them, there are counter arguments, which makes one think.

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19 minutes ago, SNJ_nurse said:

They are mandatory for public school attendance, many jobs/ schools (like nursing), etc etc...

Sure, and there's a reason for that. But nobody is being held down and forcibly injected and it's like anything else in life...you make a decision you live with the consequences. 

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7 hours ago, Wuzzie said:

Tetanus is a terrible disease and it's present in both rural and urban environments. The reason you see it as pointless is because so few people actually get it anymore BECAUSE we have a vaccine for it. You know who gets it? Unvaccinated Amish children. Jeesh.

I love you wuzzie, I love when i see your comments. 

This entire discussion reminds me of one I had recently with a bunch of MOTHERS who claimed the measles were LAUGHABLE and we dont need vaccines for it anymore. Just because we aren't seeing and remembering how dangerous these things can be does not mean we should be discrediting public health and safety, especially when that is my (future) job. To be advocating for the health of the public. 

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nursej22 has 30 years experience as a MSN, RN and specializes in med/surg,CV.

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17 hours ago, dholly2015 said:

Why is doing a large study unethical? It would only be unethical if persons did not know they were or were not getting said vaccines. I am not suggesting placebos at all. We have a fairly large population of people in the US right now that would volunteer to partake in such a study!

The gold standard for a study is a randomized, double-blind placebo. This means that some study subjects get the intervention, some do not, but they do not know. Anti-vaxxers have been demanding this type of study for years, knowing that it will never happen. 

It is unethical to withhold protection of preventable, fatal diseases from children, just to satisfy people who don't understand science. And if a large segment of the population is un-immunized, the people who cannot get immunized or have weak immune systems are at risk for contracting a potentially fatal disease. The coverage rate in the Philippines for measles dropped to 75% from 88%, resulting in tens of thousands of cases and hundreds of deaths, this year. 

And in the end, anti-vaxxers wouldn't believe the results, would demand some other cockamamie study. 

Perhaps some enterprising grad student can find all these super healthy vaccine-free people and compile their data. I won't hold my breath. 

Edited by nursej22

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On 10/18/2019 at 5:40 PM, Here.I.Stand said:

My fear is polio, tetanus etc. infecting children who didn’t choose to be ignorant about vaccines 

I'm 41 and was so surprised when I met a girl at college who had caught polio at 2 years old (roughly 1980). The Vaccine was already available for decades but her parents had not given it to her yet.  She required arm braces to walk because her legs were permanently damaged.

Just now, LiveFit99 said:

I'm 41 and was so surprised when I met a girl at college who had caught polio at 2 years old (roughly 1980). The Vaccine was already available for decades but her parents had not given it to her yet.  She required arm braces to walk because her legs were permanently damaged. Imagine the guilt her parents must have felt Knowing the disease was  preventable.

 

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nursej22 has 30 years experience as a MSN, RN and specializes in med/surg,CV.

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https://apnews.com/26fcd1adcc7246a3adaa2166311c775b

Quote

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — An unvaccinated 6-year-old Oregon boy was hospitalized for two months for tetanus and almost died of the bacterial illness after getting a deep cut while playing on a farm, according to a case study published Friday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Quote

When the boy arrived at the emergency department, his muscle spasms were so severe he could not talk, could not open his mouth and was struggling to breathe, she said.

Quote

Tetanus spores exist everywhere in the soil. When an unvaccinated person gets a deep, penetrating wound, those spores can invade the cut and begin producing the bacteria that causes the illness.

The tetanus bacterium secretes a toxin that gets into the bloodstream and latches onto the nervous system.

Anywhere from three to 21 days after infection, symptoms appear: muscle spasms, lockjaw, difficulty swallowing and breathing and seizures. The disease can cause death or severe disability in those who survive, Schaffner said.

Why anyone would be willing to subject their child to this is beyond me. 

Tetanus is not just on rusty nails, it is everywhere in the soil. Newborns in underdeveloped countries contract it through their freshly cut umbilical cords. 

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JeaniB specializes in ER and Psych.

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I go by the numbers.  Vaccinated individuals vs anti vaccinators,  side effects vs mortality,  number of sick days from work or school, number of hospital/ER stays/visits.  Science and the numbers support my decisions.

i have lived in countries where vaccines aren’t readily available.  Scars, infertility, deafness, crippled or paralyzed definitely added credence supporting vaccination.  Herd immunity is the only protection for the very young and those medically unable to vaccinate.

As a child I was fortunate.  I had mumps, measles, chicken pox and pertussis.  I had the mild versions, my childhood friend and neighbor died.

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My concerns are diseases like transverse myelitis and the mystery around autoimmunity. Neurological research is morphing into neuroimmunology. It’s not so long ago that scientists believed the blood brain barrier was impenetrable or that all bacteria was bad. I’m an advocate for vaccines and at the same time I’m an advocate for delayed vaccination schedules and some vaccines not being for everyone. As for the flu, the CDC itself reports it’s efficacy at 40% and that doesn’t even account for the rapid mutation of the flu virus. I think the underdeveloped immune systems of infants are especially sensitive to severe immune reactions by their MHC complex due to the animal DNA used in vaccines. 

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LibraSunCNM has 10 years experience as a MSN and specializes in OB.

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4 hours ago, seraphimid said:

My concerns are diseases like transverse myelitis and the mystery around autoimmunity. Neurological research is morphing into neuroimmunology. It’s not so long ago that scientists believed the blood brain barrier was impenetrable or that all bacteria was bad. I’m an advocate for vaccines and at the same time I’m an advocate for delayed vaccination schedules and some vaccines not being for everyone. As for the flu, the CDC itself reports it’s efficacy at 40% and that doesn’t even account for the rapid mutation of the flu virus. I think the underdeveloped immune systems of infants are especially sensitive to severe immune reactions by their MHC complex due to the animal DNA used in vaccines. 

But what research have you found that says delaying the current vaccination schedule helps reduce the risk of any disease in any way?  Which vaccines should be delayed?  How long?  I feel like people just come up with these compromises in their head for what must be better even though there's absolutely nothing to base it on.

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29 minutes ago, LibraSunCNM said:

But what research have you found that says delaying the current vaccination schedule helps reduce the risk of any disease in any way?  Which vaccines should be delayed?  How long?  I feel like people just come up with these compromises in their head for what must be better even though there's absolutely nothing to base it on.

Common sense research. If transverse myelitis, an autoimmune disorder triggered by vaccines and viral infections, has been established to have a specific etiology, it is due time for the scientific community to undertake research into all autoimmune disorders and any possible connection between injecting a human or animal with foreign species DNA and the following inflammatory cascade. That’s just plain and simple logic. You’re asking me for evidence of research that in the current climate of religious like faith in vaccine efficacy wouldn’t even be acceptable to perform. The research can’t be done because no one is delaying any vaccines due to the overwhelming promotion and acceptance of them as unanimously safe and effective! So when you think of better questions to ask me, I may have better answers. If you are at all genuinely interested in the connection rather than simply trying to prove me wrong in order to remain faithful to your own bias, you can use the internet to search for studies on autoimmunity, neurological disorders, and viral triggers. Here let me start the search for you with a landmark study about autism and measles. Can you show me the literature saying every single individual who HAS received vaccines doesn’t have allergies or an autoimmune type illness?

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16512356/?i=6&from=/15546805/related

Edited by seraphimid

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