To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

JanFromWI · Apr 22, 2008

For me a key advantage of belonging to my union (and why I would never work at a non-union facility) is knowing that when stand up and advocate for my patients, whether I take on an MD, manager, insurance rep, etc because they're jeopardizing my patient, I can do so without fear of retribution or reprisal.

calliesue · Apr 22, 2008

Bring on the union . I am ready in Texas.

I am also ready for universal health care.

Seems a shame the US should be even in the top five of industrialized nations R/T infant mortality rate.

We can do better. Lets even out the playing field for all Americans. :up:

jeolsz · Apr 23, 2008

The mentality in this thread is exactly why I refuse to work at a union hospital. You just don't see the power you have within yourself to change your situation, without relying on the help of others. Professional organizations are very different than labor unions, and I have no problem recognizing their importance. But unions pray on fear and victim mentalities to help create friction and tension in a workplace where none really existed in the first place. It all starts when someone thinks they are unjustly wronged and it spreads to others with a similar mentality. I've never had a problem speaking up to my supervisor when a situation arose that I felt was unsafe or I felt over whelmed. I have to say most times these situations were dealt with. As far as salary or benefits, again, I was always able to find work with good pay.

When you go into a profession, you should be going into it with your eyes wide open. No one ever said that nursing was an easy job in fact quite the opposite. To whine and complain about your lot in life and take the victim approach really irritates me. There are way too many jobs and opportunities out there for licensed professional nurses.

PS I'm also a part time realtor and talk about a profession thats really having a tough time right now! I thank god for my decision 30 yrs ago to become a RN!

allnurses Guide · Apr 23, 2008

When the facility fails to provide sufficient competent nursing staff and that puts patients at risk nurses must speak up.

Nurses are cancelled for "low census" and patients are later admitted.

The victims are the patients.

WE work together to change conditions that are not in the interest of OUR patients.

One nurse cannot stop unsafe staffing alone. Together WE are doing it.

jeolsz · Apr 23, 2008

When the facility fails to provide sufficient competent nursing staff and that puts patients at risk nurses must speak up.
Nurses are cancelled for "low census" and patients are later admitted.
The victims are the patients.
WE work together to change conditions that are not in the interest of OUR patients.
One nurse cannot stop unsafe staffing alone. Together WE are doing it.

I have not found in my 30 years of nursing experience, supervisors that are blind to what is going on on their watch. Most hospitals where I have worked have criteria that is followed in regards to the nurse patient ratio and do follow this to the best of their abilities. Many times when the census increases, new nurses are called in to relieve the load.. Don't need a union for common sense and accountable management.

You all assume that management is with out intellegence or sensibility. Most managers have been staff nurses at one time and understand what is needed. We should be working together with management.. they are not the enemy!

allnurses Guide · Apr 23, 2008

i am heartened to read that you have not had to work so short staffed that your patients were in danger. even worse is to have a preventable death because you couldn't be in more than one place at a time.

unfortunately like many nurses i have worked 14 hours all night with no break and still could not provide the care my patients required.

even the jcaho has reported that a major cause on sentinel events that harm patients is due to unsafe staffing.

there is a lot of evidence that all too many hospitals do not provide sufficient nursing staff to meed the needs of the patients.

nurse managers are pulled between trying to provide nursing care and to meet a budget.

without enough nurses, both patients and nurses suffer unnecessarily - suzane gordon http://www.betterworld.com/safety-in-numbers-id-080144683x.aspx?afid=11

[color=#191919]patients cared for in hospitals with higher rn staffing levels were 68% less likely to acquire a preventable infection, according to a review of outcome data of 15,000 patients in 51 u.s. hospitals-medical care, june 2007.

[color=#191919]improved rn staffing ratios are associated with a reduction in hospital-related mortality, failure to rescue, and

[color=#191919]lengths of stay. every additional patient assigned to an rn is associated with a 7% increase in the risk of hospitalacquired

[color=#191919]pneumonia, a 53% increase in respiratory failure, and a 17% increase in medical complications-agency

[color=#191919]for healthcare research and quality, may 2007.

[color=#191919]patients hospitalized for heart attacks, congestive heart failure, and pneumonia are more likely to receive high

[color=#191919]quality care in hospitals with better rn staffing ratios-archives of internal medicine, december 11/25, 2006.

[color=#191919]if all hospitals increased rn staffing to match the top 25% best staffed hospitals, more than 6,700 in-hospital

[color=#191919]patient deaths, and, overall 60,000 adverse outcomes could be avoided. the findings do not include the ancillary

[color=#191919]value to families of reduced morbidity, such as decreased pain and suffering and days lost from work, and huge

[color=#191919]economic savings for the hospitals-health affairs, january/february 2006.

[color=#191919]cancer surgery patients are safer in hospitals with better rn-to-patient ratios. a study of 1,300 texas patients

[color=#191919]undergoing a common surgery for bladder cancer documented a cut in patient mortality rates of more than 50%.

[color=#191919]hospitals with low volume on cancer procedures can match standards of high volume urban medical centers just

[color=#191919]by increasing their rn ratios-cancer, journal of the american cancer society, september 2005.

[color=#191919]cutting rn-to-patient ratios to 1:4 nationally could save as many as 72,000 lives annually, and is less costly than

[color=#191919]many other basic safety interventions common in hospitals, including clot-busting medications for heart attacks

[color=#191919]and pap tests for cervical cancer-medical care, journal of the american public health association, august 2005.

[color=#191919]chances of a hospital patient surviving cardiac arrest are lower during the night shift because staffing is usually

[color=#191919]lower at night, even though cardiac arrest occurs at all times of day or night-according to a report on 17,991

[color=#191919]cardiac cases from 250 hospitals-annual meeting, american heart association, november 2003.

[color=#191919]the institutes of medicine of the national academy of sciences reports that "nurse staffing levels affect patient

[color=#191919]outcomes and safety." insufficient monitoring of patients, caused by poor working conditions and the assignment

[color=#191919]of too few rns, increases the likelihood of patient deaths and injuries-iom, november 4, 2003.

[color=#191919]inadequate staffing precipitated one-fourth of all sentinel events-unexpected occurrences that led to patient

[color=#191919]deaths, injuries, or permanent loss of function-reported to jcaho, the joint commission on accreditation of

[color=#191919]hospital organizations, from 1997 to 2002-jcaho, august 7, 2002.

[color=#191919]improved rn-to-patient ratios reduce rates of pneumonia, urinary infections, shock, cardiac arrest, gastrointestinal

[color=#191919]bleeding, and other adverse outcomes-new england journal of medicine, may 30, 2002.

[color=#191919]up to 20,000 patient deaths each year can be linked to preventable patient deaths. for each additional patient

[color=#191919]assigned to an rn the likelihood of death within 30 days increased by seven percent. four additional patients

[color=#191919]increased the risk of death by 31%-journal of the american medical association (jama), october 22, 2002.

http://www.calnurses.org/assets/pdf/ratios/ratios_booklet.pdf

jeolsz · Apr 24, 2008

I am heartened to read that you have not had to work so short staffed that your patients were in danger. Even worse is to have a preventable death because you couldn't be in more than one place at a time.
Unfortunately like many nurses I have worked 14 hours all night with no break and still could not provide the care my patients required.

Never said I've never worked in unsafe conditions.. Stuff happens that you can't plan for.. In a perfect world there would 1 nurse for every patient.. But nothing is ever perfect, and sometimes staffing is not up to par. My point was, why do I need a Union to insure proper staffing?

HM2VikingRN, RN · Apr 24, 2008

Ask the nurses in MPLS St Paul who negotiated safe staffing language. Because of their efforts patients, and staff are safer.

MNA members in the Twin cities have a portable defined benefit pension. In other words all employers are contributing to a single pension fund on behalf of nurse members which cuts administrative costs and increases returns for members.

Last contract settled without any need for talk of a job action because nurses are viewed as professionals and respected.

forrester · Apr 24, 2008

You all assume that management is with out intellegence or sensibility. Most managers have been staff nurses at one time and understand what is needed. We should be working together with management.. they are not the enemy! (quote)

No one has said that management is without intelligence or sensibility.

Non-nursing management is very intelligent, and ruthless.

Nursing administration is incompetent at best and caught between a brick and a hard place. Hence, the high turn-over rates. They cannot control the most pressing issues of pay, ratios, and ancillary staffing.

Nursing administrations are represented by their organization, the AONE. The AONE is a chapter of the AHA. The AHA has continously opposed any efforts to improve conditions at the bedside. I can't tell you how many JACHO inspections I've been thru. Staffing levels suddenly reach appropriate levels during the inspection. Granted, JACHO is a joke, but if there wasn't a problem, why the abrupt change during the inspections?

THEY (management) know there's a problem.

sharona97, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2008

Why do you need a union for that?.. I have been working for a health insurance corporation for 10 years and I'll retire with a pension and a 401K that my employer contributes well to every year. I have access to great benefits and all different nursing positions that allow me to work from the comfort of my home. Oh yeah, and a great salary to boot! All this without a union! I got this job with a four year college degree, a NJ nursing license and plenty of hospital experience....But not a union in sight... Choices, that's what matters in life, not what other people think is good for me.
And yes, if you don't like what's happening at your job, you always have the opportunity to change it or leave.. If there is enough turnover at your place of employment, I think management will get the message!

1. Management doesn't pay my salary or hourly wage.

2. Non-union jobs do not have a work clause that protects you from unfair firings, harrassment nor managerial subjectvive feelings or paper trails for their perceived right of empowerment to do so unfairly and at times illegaly.

3. Unions protect you and your job, no matter how much you save in your years of working without union support.

4. Without a union your hard earned savings could be taken away in a blink of an eye and along with that your job, career and accusations of defamation of character and get away with it.

5. Serious unions hold meetings outside of the work place, on your time not on your employers time. :twocents:

sharona97, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2008

Also, it's nice that nurses in non-union hospitals can benefit from the hard work and sacrifice of their sisters and brothers in unions, but not something to be particularly proud of.

To me that's like saying, maybe I'll help my co-worker or just watch her do all the work and don't even think about how it would help her...........

jeolsz · Apr 29, 2008

I've gotta tell you, I've worked in nursing for close to 30 years.. Never been fired, never lost a pension or benefits.. Only worked in one hospital that became unionized while I was there, and I've gotta say I saw very little improvement in my personal situation at the time.

I've read alot of union rhetoric in this thread, and it sounds to me as though alot of you like to spread fear and "what-if's" to many who don't know any better. To those who are new to nursing and may tend to believe alot of what you have read here about unions trust me, as you become more experienced in your profession, your options increase and better days lie ahead...without the help of a union. I've had my share of disgusting, stressful and perfectly awful jobs and it's really all part of the job. But as a nurse your options are almost limitless.. and in my opinion, unions have no place in our profession. We have too many options and after all there is a shortage of us!