Published May 20, 2001
You are reading page 2 of Tired of the BSN, ADN, LPN, CNA argument
Originally posted by Mijourney:Hi nurs4kids. Although it's gradually changing, in my neck of the woods, a nurse still does not need a BSN to be in management. He/she just need to have a fair amount of clinical experience and be in the right place at the right time and know the right people.
Hi nurs4kids. Although it's gradually changing, in my neck of the woods, a nurse still does not need a BSN to be in management. He/she just need to have a fair amount of clinical experience and be in the right place at the right time and know the right people.
Mijourney and nurse4kids,
At my hospital you need a BSN or greater to be a nurse manager or supervisor, but only an ADN or diploma to be an Assistant manager. The way I read chuchies post is that you are more marketable outside of nursing with a BSN. As many posters have written in the past, the starting degree in most other professions is a 4 year degree or more and most of these people will not look at some one without the same minimum degree regardless of experiance. I am not saying that no one will, because I am sure there are some probably many employers that would hire anyone of us regardless.
The main difference between a bsn and adn is that with the Bsn you get more BS skills from the additional useless classes you have to take that do not improve your patient care skills. Of coarse I know ADN nurses who can BS very well but they had to learn it on their own or it comes from their nursing intuition (they have an associate degree because they are always found to be associated with BS'ing. We (the former BSN grads) received formal trainging in this area.
MS- More of same
PhD- Piled higher & Deeper, Post hole Digger, Pizza hut Driver, Please hire. Desperate, Pour him/her a Drink
(take your pick)
Hope it helps clear it up
Jared, MSN student
I am truly amazed that in the year 2001 we as professionals are still bickering among ourselves over titles, titles that reflect education. NOT abilities, NOT worth, NOT dedication, NOT compassion, NOT desire, all things that are needed to be a valued part of our nation's health care TEAM.
In 1979 I had an LPN instructor (MSN) was her title, who said, "you all need to realize you will be unemployed in 2 years".
She went on to profess that by 1985 LPN's and ADN's would be phased out and only BSN's and MSN's would be practicing. Man would I love to see her today...........lol
As I practiced as an LPN for 17 years (after that warning), and have a ADN, and over half what is needed for a BSN, I think I could easly show her the ignorance of her statement.
This dispute is ongoing and will be ongoing as long as we continue to provide it with fuel.
So for my part, let me say, HATS OFF TO ALL NURSES, Each filling a critical need and is a valued part of the nursing TEAM.
You all do remember the word TEAM???
You need a BSN for Nursing Management. Tell that to my ADN mother-in-law making over 100K a yr as a CNO.
This title issue has been around as long as I have been in Nursing. I remember when we were going to call ADN's and Diploma Nurses "Technical Nurses" and BSN and higher were to be called "Professional Nurses". From the Navy standpoint we tried this a few years back and it is still creating chaos in the system, even the the progra has long since been terminated.
I think that everyone who says that getting their BSN hasn't helped them, is probably looking at the financial side of the issue. Granted you don't make that much more money, but you should have self gratification.
If you don't want to bicker, don't answer the post, just ignore it! Bite those tongues, hit those "back" buttons and keep on reading. I've learned to tolerate it all... I've learned to tolerate people I work with. We have to start getting along with each other...Sometimes it's very hard, but I just walk away then come back. They get the picture sooner or later. Enough said. Wait, let me get my helmet and gloves on before I get bashed...Ok, now I'm ready...
I just don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe it is just me - BUT- I don't think so!!!!!!!!!
EVERY OTHER professional in OUR hospitals- Doctors, Resp. tec's, OT's, dietians, HAVE THEIR DEGREE!!!!!!!!!! It is just understood. Nursing is the same deal- granted- we are stuggling with a shortage- and at the same time trying our damnest to raise the bar to the degree level so ONCE AND FOR ALL this issue of who is what kind of professional is PUT TO BED!
In my neck of the woods- as of 2005 YOU NEED A DEGREE to be a RN. End of story. People here just have to deal with it.
I really question people who try to bicker that even though they have lots and lots of experience.........they know more- or better yet- deserve as much or more money than someone who just finished 4 or 5 years of school. Give me a break. Try to agrue that point in the business field or physican domain. Not likely.
Get a grip people!
We are a team!
Nurses all have their strengths and weakness, preferences and dislikes no matter what the education. We all have our own career path that fits our personalities. No one nurse is better then another just because of the number of letters behind their name. Their is room for all of us and we need to support one another in our profession. This having been said, I am a Canadian RN with ten years experience in everything from community nursing to ER and ICU. I recently went back to school par time to get my BSN. I have put myself in dept and given myself alot of headaches, but I love what I am doing. School has inspired me and perhaps given me some tools to try to forword the profession and perhaps work towards solutions in the failing canadian health care system. As much as I would love to try to help improve the situation for all nurses (still haven't figured out just how yet), I love direct patient contact. I have been getting some encouragement from peers, family and professors to continue on with my masters. I am alittle apprehensive. Now I am begining to question my ability to actually make a difference. What will my Masters give me that I can not do with my BSN? Will I still have direct pt contact? Is it worth it? Do I really want to put my life on hold and become even more in dept? Is the career move for me? I not sure where to find these answers or if they actually truly excist. Any suggestions?
Congrats on getting your Bachelor's. I had to respond to your question and apprehension about getting your MSN. My thought is, if you are not ready to persue it, then don't. Only persue it if it will enhance a career path that you have already chosen.
For instance: in the states, for many of the jobs that I think would be attractive to me, they require a MSN, such as most teaching positions, reseach positions, director/administrative positions, etc. While you seem to enjoy patient care, there are several that include patient care as well, such as a Clinical Nurse Specialist, a Nurse Practitioner, a Nurse Anesthetist, a Clinical Instructor/Professor, Nurse Educator, Community Program Director, etc. The list goes on and on in my mind! There are some exceptions to this rule, yes. I am sure there are many people out there in these roles (with the exception of educators and CNSs) that do not have a Master's. However, as the baby-boomers retire, and these positions either open up or are created, the job market seems to be adjusting by raising the bar a bit - and, if nothing else, it will give you an advantage over other applicants.
I myself have wanted to persue my Master's for some time, but only after I started finding jobs that I would love, but they all required a MSN to even be interviewed. I then decided that if I want to be in those roles, that I should go back to school. So far the timing hasn't been right - and I haven't even decided on which graduate program to consider. I am also afraid of the added loans, as I am still paying off my undergrad loan, so I hear what you are saying. My advice is, decide what you really think you might want to do, and then if a Master's fits into that role, then go for it. It can only benefit you. Not to mention, a RN on my floor just completed her PhD - she wants to teach - but she loves L&D so much that she still staffs per diem.
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