This is like going to war...

mspontiac · Sep 4, 2010

Maybe you should stick to the student forums then?

Perfect example of what the OP was talking about. Thank you for that shining display.

Getreal2011 · Sep 4, 2010

Well, that's a honest answer. I can respect that.

rn/writer, RN · Sep 4, 2010

Originally Posted by meandragonbrett
Maybe you should stick to the student forums then?

Originally posted by mspontiac

Perfect example of what the OP was talking about. Thank you for that shining display.

Students--like any other members of AN--can visit any forum they choose, and they are welcomed to do so. They are also allowed to post in threads outside the student area. But it can be irritating to have posters who are still in school criticizing seasoned nurses based on a limited amount of knowledge and some assumptions that may or may not have any grounding in fact.

It would be one thing to post something like this in the student forums where it might draw some commiseration from peers. It's another altogether to post in in the General Nursing Forum where it can only appear judgmental.

Some students or newer nurses have sought a more positive outlook by asking the general membership what they like about nursing. Or they question (sincerely) why there seems to be so much negativity without adding a scolding tone.

These inquiries are usually met with a bit more grace and receptivity because they demonstrate maturity and a willingness to have a real conversation. But when students come in with guns blazing, all fired up to tell off the experienced nurses this can make for some awkward and heated exchanges.

Students should feel free to look around the board, visit AN and AN Central, check out the various specialty forums, and use the many resources available here. Free-range roaming can help with so many future decisions.

At the same time, it's a good idea to consider that seasoned nurses--especially those who have seen aspects of their jobs turn into a riptide--may not take kindly to being given a tongue-lashing by someone who is just getting their feet wet.

EricJRN, MSN, RN · Sep 4, 2010

:igtsyt:
The judgment and generalizations towards different groups of people are just sad and disappointing. Deal with each person, student, or new nurse individually.

Agreed. I think these generalizations are a big part of the tensions we've seen on the site lately. We have a tendency to assume that what we experience individually must represent the way things are in the big picture.

If I have frustrating experiences with a series of nursing students at work, I should know that a handful of students from one school does not represent the entire lot of nursing's future. It does not mean that all nursing students are lazy, naive or entitled. If I post such a statement, I should expect a pretty lively response from student members (especially our very active ones who work hard in school and then come here for even more help).

If a student has horrid experiences with a string of nurses (even at multiple hospitals), that represents a really small percentage of the many nurses out there. If a student comes on and even suggests that nurses are unhelpful, grumpy and antisocial people, he's pretty much asking for a defensive (and potentially offensive) reply.

Personally, when I see these posts from students or from nurses, I'm really going to try to keep in mind that they're vents and not personal attacks against every member of an entire group of people.

GHGoonette, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2010

How odd-EricJrn, you just quoted a sentence which actually is abstracted from OP's original post, and which I quoted in my response, yet it credits it to me... Any idea how that might happen? I made a mistake when I first posted it, and had to go back and edit it; perhaps that has something to do with it...

Getreal2011 · Sep 4, 2010

The association with war was probably a bad comparison. Reading something posted by a grumpy nurse is not exactly the same as realising that big boom that just happened was a dude in a taxi blowing himself up. If you want to discuss the issue at hand, fine; however, throwing in war comments and comments about therapy before going to the "warzone" as a student add nothing productive to the discussion at hand.
Clearly, you are new, have no experience and so on, as you have already stated. Nursing is no different than any other human experience. You have good ones, bad ones, and everything in-between. In addition, I find it interesting that you would take comments made on a public forum to heart. Wait for your clinical rotations and make up your mind in a couple of years.

I chose that comparison and I'll stick with it. You choose to express yourself the way you want and I'll do the same. You have no idea of the trials I've experienced in life and vice-versa, but thanks for your suggestion.

I may not obviously have experience being a nurse, but I do have experience in being a "human being", and I don't need to "wait for my clinicals" to experience that. I just feel that people should try and treat others the way they would like to be treated and remember they were once in those very same shoes.

I am just voicing my opinion about something I feel strongly about and not taking anything "to heart", so maybe it's not that interesting anymore?

Believe...that I chew up and spit out what I don't need, and swallow what I do. I choose to learn as much as I can from this site, but it doesn't mean I can't speak my mind.

Thank you for your input.

Getreal2011 · Sep 4, 2010

Agreed. I think these generalizations are a big part of the tensions we've seen on the site lately. We have a tendency to assume that what we experience individually must represent the way things are in the big picture.
If I have frustrating experiences with a series of nursing students at work, I should know that a handful of students from one school does not represent the entire lot of nursing's future. It does not mean that all nursing students are lazy, naive or entitled. If I post such a statement, I should expect a pretty lively response from student members (especially our very active ones who work hard in school and then come here for even more help).
If a student has horrid experiences with a string of nurses (even at multiple hospitals), that represents a really small percentage of the many nurses out there. If a student comes on and even suggests that nurses are unhelpful, grumpy and antisocial people, he's pretty much asking for a defensive (and potentially offensive) reply.
Personally, when I see these posts from students or from nurses, I'm really going to try to keep in mind that they're vents and not personal attacks against every member of an entire group of people.

Very good points.

I also, try to always mention the positive comments, posts, and feedback I have seen. Not all of us "students" come in with these attitudes they talk about. Not all nurses are negative or "grumpy".

Give people chance. It goes both ways.

metal_m0nk, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2010

I just feel that people should try and treat others the way they would like to be treated and remember they were once in those very same shoes.

By that logic, it would stand to reason that a student should probably reserve judgement about an experienced nurse until he/she has walked in the experienced nurse's shoes. I think that's the point that people are trying to get across. You've never been in their shoes. You may find that once you have, you'd consider the responses you've received to be wholly justified rather than the way you've described them.

Getreal2011 · Sep 4, 2010

:igtsyt:
The judgment and generalizations towards different groups of people are just sad and disappointing. Deal with each person, student, or new nurse individually. We all have faults, problems, and burdens..no one is an exception.
I sincerely hope, that whoever I am put under to learn truly has the will and patience to teach someone else. I would hope and pray I get someone who really does want to teach and lead. :bowingpur
At times I have seen some more seasoned, patient, and positive responses, and I try to learn and absorb what I can from them, because some of you guys give very good advice and insight. On the other hand, I have also seen the opposite.:chair:
I knew nursing was hard but I didn't realize there was so much internal conflict among nurses. Lord help us ALL! I'm going to see a therapist BEFORE my clinicals. :grn:

OP sweetie, you said it all in this part of your post. All of us are different-"it takes all kinds" etc etc.
My (equally senior) colleague and I have done our fair share of mentoring and can say with pride that many of our preceptees have gone on to run PACUs in other hospitals! Of course, if a junior makes a really glaring mistake due to laziness or carelessness I reserve the right-in fact it is my duty!-to give her hell about it!
Sometimes the worst kind of fire-breathing dragons are the ones you learn the most from. Yes, I know we old girls might occasionally seem like something out of Men in Black, but then nursing is a bit like another planet isn't it?
Don't be scared, I think you have sufficient steel in your nether regions....

Thank you. I can imagine how nurses must feel sometimes and I have never faulted them for feeling the way they do. I have seen posters say that, students are just in the way, nothing you can do will help, and so on and so on.

I am NOT a newbie trying to give anyone a tongue lashing at all. I am saying, that I'm a human being and would like to be treated as such. I am saying please give me a chance before you determine that I'm just in the way, or a waste of your time.

Yes, this has to do with nursing but it has to do with being treated as a human being first and foremost.

It's just how I feel, can't speak for anyone else.

Getreal2011 · Sep 4, 2010

War, builds camaraderie like nothing else can.

True...true!

allnurses Guide · Sep 4, 2010

getreal : There have been a few threads here lately that have some pretty insulting replies from some people, but it's a huge leap from that to some of the conclusions you've made, especially those that say we're angry and hate students, our co-workers, etc. I don't hate anyone and I'm not angry. Instead of telling you to wait until you are a nurse to comment, I'd suggest you look at this forum as a whole, not from what a few people are saying within 3 or 4 that got very heated. Also keep in mind that people tend to notice and remember negativity. Sort of like the news. If you ask someone what was in a half hour newscast, they'll tell you about the 3 minutes that covered the fire, not the 22 (yes I can add-allowing for commercials) minutes about the weather and alarming rise in the price of cauliflower. :) Look over the "what's new" section. There are many very supportive threads there.

I've found that if you spend enough time around here certain trends occur, and one is that (I know it's not 100%) people who reply reflect the tone of the first post, or the content of the first post if it contains one of those off-the-wall claims or generalizations. I've never once seen a nasty reply to a student's post written in a respectful and polite manner, even if the subject matter is one an experienced nurse could take offense to. If it does raise the hackles of a number of nurses, you might look at the first post to find out why. I am not blaming the victim here! Just something to think about before you decide we are a bunch of mean old meanies who hate everyone.

Getreal2011 · Sep 4, 2010

getreal : There have been a few threads here lately that have some pretty insulting replies from some people, but it's a huge leap from that to some of the conclusions you've made, especially those that say we're angry and hate students, our co-workers, etc. I don't hate anyone and I'm not angry. Instead of telling you to wait until you are a nurse to comment, I'd suggest you look at this forum as a whole, not from what a few people are saying within 3 or 4 that got very heated. Also keep in mind that people tend to notice and remember negativity. Sort of like the news. If you ask someone what was in a half hour newscast, they'll tell you about the 3 minutes that covered the fire, not the 22 (yes I can add-allowing for commercials) minutes about the weather and alarming rise in the price of cauliflower. :) Look over the "what's new" section. There are many very supportive threads there.
I've found that if you spend enough time around here certain trends occur, and one is that (I know it's not 100%) people who reply reflect the tone of the first post, or the content of the first post if it contains one of those off-the-wall claims or generalizations. I've never once seen a nasty reply to a student's post written in a respectful and polite manner, even if the subject matter is one an experienced nurse could take offense to. If it does raise the hackles of a number of nurses, you might look at the first post to find out why. I am not blaming the victim here! Just something to think about before you decide we are a bunch of mean old meanies who hate everyone.

You made some very good and valid points. People do look at the negative first. I try not to ever say, "all" people are like this. I don't call people names, I state how I feel from what I have read here.

Honestly, I do find it a little unfair that, people can post how terrible students are here, which I have read on numerous occasions. Usually, the people that do have issues, jump right on the bandwagon. Now that doesn't mean everybody (just to clarify).

HOWEVER, when a student nurse, or new nurse responds, comments, or vents at some point, we are slapped on the hand for responding to such discouraging statements??? We are told that we should be more sensitive in the way we write things because of the way seasoned and experienced nurses may interpret it.

I'm sorry, but when does it become okay to say, please don't judge me before you know me?

I stated what I read about in black in white. I stated how I felt, and I tried not to resort to personal insults. I asked folks to please not generalize and judge newbies by previous experiences. Was that wrong?

I am not speaking for all posters on this topic, but I am speaking for me. I can respect people and their experiences, heck tell me about the bad day you had, just don't assume that I'm "just like that bad experience".

Give me a chance.

Thank you for all your input.