Thinking of being a circulator?...Think twice.

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Thinking of being a circulator?...(especially for new RN grads)...consider carefully. If you will only circulate, and you will be working in an OR with surgical technicians, or scrubs, who do not have a nursing background, then you may find yourself answering to, not supervising, surgical technicians, who may harbor resentments towards you being "the nurse".

In these OR settings, there is often a hierarchy: surgeon, anesthesia (often the CRNA, who is the advance practice nurse, and who knows far more about the patient's vital signs than the RN circulator), then comes the surgical technician, or scrub, and at the bottom of this hierarchy, the RN circulator.

In such OR settings, when the surgeon asks, "How is the patient doing?" The surgeon wants anesthesia (CRNA) to provide the information, not the RN circulator, who could possibly not have a clue, especially if said circulator had to leave the room for an instrument, said scrub forgot to pull prior to the surgery.

If the patient needs meds, such as for blood pressure, heart rate, etc., the CRNA is the advance practice nurse, and will be administering such drugs. Basically, they are the primary nurse in the room. As a circulator, you will be the secondary nurse. You will be charting, helping position the patient, going get stuff from outside the OR (which was forgotten, or is unexpectedly needed), checking the paperwork (consents, H&P, etc.), and setting up the OR with the scrubs.

When the surgeon, CRNA, or scrub politely asks (or yells), "I need...!" It's your job to fulfill their needs...not the other way around.

In such OR settings, don't think, "I'm the RN! I'm in charge of this operating room." No. You are not in charge of the operating room. The surgeon is the captain of that ship, or operating room. Then comes anesthesia (usually CRNA). Then the scrub, who is working with the surgeon, and anticipating, or relating the needs of the surgeon. Then comes you...the RN.

So why have a RN in the operating room? Because some states mandate their be a RN in the operating room, as a circulator, who may assist (often assisting the CRNA, when the patient crashes) during emergencies. But, laws are not written in stone. Could these state mandates change? Sure. In Australia, the nurse (RN) works in the position as a scrub, and the surgical technician works as the circulator.

So do operating rooms need registered nurses (barring state mandates)? In my humble opinion, No. Registered nurses are not needed in the operating room. Surgical technicians can easily perform the duties done by a circulator. They do it in Australia. Just a matter of time, probably, until RNs are phased out of the OR.

So, thinking of being a circulator? Consider what career growth and potential you may have. Want to be a RNFA? Your gonna have to learn suturing and instrumentation...scrub work...that's their area of expertise. They don't teach such things in nursing school. Want to be a surgical nurse practitioner? Helps to have scrub experience...otherwise you are in the same position of not knowing the basic suturing and instrumentation. See the trend? Career advancement in the operating room is rooted in knowing how to scrub if you're a RN. Even if you want to be the OR manager. Never scrubbed? Then let's see how much respect you will have among your subordinates.

Sure there are all RN ORs, in which even the scrubs are nurses. But scrubbing is the badge of honor.

Still thinking of being a circulator? Good luck.

Thinking of being a circulator?...(especially for new RN grads)...consider carefully. If you will only circulate, and you will be working in an OR with surgical technicians, or scrubs, who do not have a nursing background, then you may find yourself answering to, not supervising, surgical technicians, who may harbor resentments towards you being "the nurse".

The RN does not and never has supervised the scrub. Yes, there are a few scrubs out there who may resent you for being the nurse but, the majority of the scrubs I've worked with aren't like that. There are also nurses out there who think they are better than scrubs because they are "the nurse".

You also need to realize that a scrub tech with years of experience is more knowledgable about things in the OR than the brand new nurse. My manager actually puts new nurses just off orientation with the strongest scrubs so that the scrubs can help them and answer question.

The OR is all about teamwork. If you are that miserable at your job, maybe you should start looking for another job.

Specializes in EMT, ER, Homehealth, OR.

None taken. The circulating job is not all task orientated; the 10% is the critical thinking part and this is were the scrub and RN can not always change roles. It is nothing against scrubs because a good scrub knows their stuff and is hard to replace. Also the circulating nurses job is not just in the OR suite.

Most respectfully, regarding your (springchick 1, ADN) statement, "The RN does not and never has supervised the scrub", I disagree. In many states, in the United States of America, the RN is charged with the duty of supervising the scrub, a.k.a., surgical technician. For example, in Georgia, administrative code title 290 rules of Department of Human Resources states, "...surgical technicians perform scrub functions ONLY under the SUPERVISION of a licensed registered nurse..."

I do agree about OR teamwork, and an experienced scrub being more knowledgable about working in the OR than a brand new nurse (new grad), and, I'll add, an experienced nurse who has never worked in the OR... which I believe only further strengthens my point: a registered nurse, working as a circulator, is not needed in the OR; and, linking that point with your statement, "...the strongest scrubs...can help them (new nurses) and answer questions" is another example of where the basis of knowledge lies...not within the RN, but within the scrub.

Sorry, but I thought I made myself clear earlier...I am not miserable at my job. I was offering my opinion regarding a registered nurse working as a circulator in the OR. I appreciate your input into this discussion, and I am also glad any misconceptions can be clarified, especially regarding the role of the RN in terms of their supervising duties. Kind of odd for some states, in the United States of America, to require the duty of supervision of a scrub (surgical technician) to an RN, when, I agree with you, "...the strongest scrubs...can help (new nurses) and answer questions" being that, as you stated, "...a scrub tech with years of experience is more knowledgeable about things in the OR..."

Thank you.

I too have seen such manipulation of knowledge...and who may ultimately suffer as a result? The patient. These schisms between scrubs and nurses could be avoided if the OR could be composed entirely of nurses, or as I have suggested, surgical technicians (of course keeping the only advance nurse currently in the OR, the CRNA) instead of creating a factional workforce, which can exist in less than perfect teamwork OR settings. Teamwork, for the sake of the patient, should be the overall goal of an OR workforce, not factional issues such as those you (showmethemoney) have experienced.

Hey Dude you are right on target. But you left out that O.R. Nurses eat each other up. There is a pecking order but it doesn't prevent all of the hens to set ups/ and back stab. I have been in the OR since 1984 and we are our own worst enemies. But licensed employees or not in the OR, patient safety does fall on our shoulders. So the role has changed but the responsibility has not. And I agree that soon RNs will be phased out of this very critical area of the Operating Room. Thanks for validating our opinions.

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
But you left out that O.R. Nurses eat each other up. There is a pecking order but it doesn't prevent all of the hens to set ups/ and back stab.

That hasn't been my experience at all. The plural of anecdote is not data. Yes, there are toxic environments in some ORs. That doesn't make it universal truth.

And I agree that soon RNs will be phased out of this very critical area of the Operating Room.

I find that very unlikely as it would require legislation changes in many states. How many voters and politicians do you think would support such legislation?

With utmost respect, Rose_Queen, the overall trend, over the years, has been a parceling of, once-held, nursing duties to other professions, with the role of scrub, now being more widely held by surgical technicians, instead of nurses. Physical and respiratory therapy were previously performed nursing duties. The trend has been an abdication of nursing duties to other professions.

Laws change over time. What is the timeframe for such change? Very debatable. Yet, the trend is well underway regarding the changing role of the registered nurse in the operating room. The scrub role, in many hospitals, has already been relinquished to the surgical technician. A few hospitals continue to utilize registered nurses as scrubs; yet, I would argue, such hospitals are in the minority.

Looking at the overall trend of the surgical nurse, I would argue it's merely a matter of time until the role of circulator is also abdicated.

Change is the only constant. Laws are not permanent, and neither are registered nurses permanently mandated to serve as circulators.

My opinion. No disrespect. Just offering ideas for sake of conversation...particularly for anyone considering a career as a circulator.

Specializes in Peri-Op.

I disagree with about 95% of what you are saying. Either you have worked in bad environments or you have a problem working as the member of a team. I have been staff and traveler at numerous facilities across the US and have worked in the OR for about 18 years now. In general, respect gets respect and this works in our professions too. The circulator is not in charge of the surgeon or the anesthesiologist nor should they be but I guarantee you if I tell them something or really to NOT do something, they listen. They dont listen because I am screaming or bossy, they listen because I objective and rational with my thoughts. Scrubs(tech or RN) do have attitude on occasion but if you are knowledgeable and have their respect then I guarantee they listen. I have not had the experiences that you have. I have worked in TX, CO, OR so far and CA starting next month.

As far as phasing out nursing in the OR I doubt that. In recent years I have noticed the opposite trend that we had in the 90s. A lot of facilities have been going back to RN scrubs, periop programs have been dedicating a lot more time to teaching scrubbing too. Out of 30 ORs in my current facility in Oregon you will have about 6 with a tech scrubbing on any given day. My last hospital I was staff at in CO we had 25 staff for 4 ORs and only 3 were techs. Working CVOR I only ever worked with 2 techs scrubbing over 2 years at 3 hospitals. The two travel spots I had in CO had less techs than ORs too..... plenty of RNs scrubbing and no techs were planned on being hired.

I was a scrub tech prior to nursing and respect both positions. Maybe change up the attitude and have more respect for the whole team. Sometimes one persons attitude can change the entire ORs attitude, good or bad.

Thank you for your opinion regarding your experience.

As for your opinion regarding me, personally, you do not know me, and such opinion has no basis.

Specializes in OR.

I agree completely with this post, OP. I was one of the disillusioned new nurses that thought going to the OR would be a valuable experience, but it is nothing like I thought it would be. We are not respected at all in the OR, and the surgeon turns to the CRNA for patient-related info, not the RN. Many in the OR (techs and RNs) have a God complex and they won't hesitate to back stab or throw you under the bus if given the chance, as long as they get what they want.

Anyone can be a circulating nurse, and you do not need to have an RN license to do that. Many of the bedside nursing tasks can be performed by the CRNA (and at my facility, the CRNA is the one that does it). Can anyone with minimal training... Insert a Foley? Yes. Straight cath? Yes. Hook up all the unsterile equipment? Yes. Position the patient? Yes. Prep the patient? Absolutely. It does not take a Bachelor's degree or an RN license to know how to do any of that.

The only thing you need a license for is Pyxis access (though techs used to be able to do that at my facility), blood administration (most of the time the CRNA checks it with another CRNA if available or even the anesthesiologist), medication admin (antibiotics, anesthesia drugs), and ordering labs or meds. That's pretty much it.

I disagree with RNs being eventually phased out of the OR. The AORN is a very powerful organization and lobby for perioperative nursing as a whole. As long as the AORN exists, RNs in the OR won't go any time soon.

We are the ones who say "hey doc, lets wait another minute for the prep to dry prior to draping to prevent an OR fire".
Yeah, but anyone can do that. Half the time the doctors don't care and will drape anyway.

I'm glad that there are so many OR nurses that love their job, and truly find value in it. I think that one of the most important things in life is loving what you do, and nursing is a career worthy of love! There are plenty of nurses in my OR that are happy with it, and that is wonderful for them. I truly believe that, I am not being condescending at all. Unfortunately that has not been my experience, and I will be returning to the bedside as soon as possible.

I miss starting IVs, pushing meds, spending time with the patient and their family, doing head-to-toe assessments, reading EKGs, and reporting critical values to the physician, etc. OR nurses simply do NOT do any of those things. Bummer.

Argo: One other thought. By your own admission, "I was a scrub tech prior to nursing...", essentially supports my fundamental argument. Career advancement, and the foundation of knowledge, in the OR, is rooted in scrubbing, and having scrub experience. You may disagree with 95% of what I am saying, but by your own admission, I would offer, you have 100% validated the foundation of my argument/proposal.

Respectfully submitted.

The RN carries one of the licenses the surgical tech functions under. There are only a handful of states that require licensure of ORTs. Certification is very different from licensure. Licenses can be taken away if there is trouble with that professional. Certifications are merely a measure of training. RNs of course supervise ORTs, I carry the license, not the other way around. I have to tell the ORT and the surgeon to stop when there are scope of practice issues. In my state ORTs have very limited scope of practice and it's my job to enforce that as an agent of the facility. You cannot let ORTs override your license, no way, unless your willing to surrender it when things go tragic. (BTW, I'm a former ORT).

I think many circulators are ignorant of what is going on during the surgery and prone to being directed by the tech. But, that is improper and a cop out, you'll be running around while they play torture the nurse. Why get your education if your going to not know what's going on under the lights? Like I said, I was an ORT before being a nurse. I'd MUCH rather scrub cases than circulate. i work hard as a circulator, not anyone can do it. I will say, though, when I'm acting as a nurse scrub and a less experienced nurse is circulating, I keep an eye on everything and do give direction to the circulator. Maybe that's how Aussies do it: the licensed nurse, whether scrub or circulator runs the nursing end.

With all due respect, acerbia, I would never want a poorly educated tech positioning me or my family members. There's a reason we took those years of anatomy, physiology... It matters. Anyone can do anything, let the janitor hang the blood, but do you really think that's safe and appropriate?

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