They have spoken..

Published

The references cited were all written before 500,000 US residents were laid off in November in 2008. I would guess that December 2008 is going to be similar. If The unemployed enrolled in nursing school they will meet the growing needs therefore no need to import.

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http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2008/12/immigration-issues-related-to-layoffs-and-corporate-downsizing.html

Now according to the same web page,this attorney is counseling how to survive a layoff.......

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Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.
The references cited were all written before 500,000 US residents were laid off in November in 2008. I would guess that December 2008 is going to be similar. If The unemployed enrolled in nursing school they will meet the growing needs therefore no need to import.

But it doesn't work like that! It's like saying that if they all went to work in the building trade then they wouldn't need to give out visas for people from outside the US to come and work in the building trade.

It completely devalues nursing as a vocation and a profession to suggest that anyone can/or would want to do our job. You have to ask why there is a world wide nursing shortage in the first place.

Also the Dept of homeland security memo was dated Dec 5th (if thats what you meant by the references cited)

In your next post you comment about the attorneys article about surviving a layoff and this is correct, but it doesn't change the value of the memo - that came from the department of homeland security, not the attorney.

I find it intersting that some people who post are working (or not) in the US but came originally from outside the US but are so anti foreign nurses coming to work in the US now.

Maybe someone who was originally from outside the US would like to explain the differences in the US nursing job market between when they came to work/train in the US and now? Was there something in particular going on at that time that made them feel justified in taking a US nurses job off them, when apparently now anyone wishing to come and work in the US (No matter how much clinical experience they have) is not justified in doing that same thing.

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"I find it intersting that some people who post are working (or not) in the US but came originally from outside the US but are so anti foreign nurses coming to work in the US now."

Hear hear. Spot on.

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Specializes in intensive care, recovery, anesthetics.

Good comment.

I think especially for experienced nurses who are flexible regarding the State/area, they are still job opportunities without doing harm to US nurses.

But no visas....

5cats

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Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.

Probably will differ from state to state but if you check some of the state forums like Massachusetts, California etc and you will see threads on new grads unable to find work, have also seen threads in the general nursing of nurses struggling to find work or are getting laid off. We understand nurses want to move to the US and work but without experience it can be hard and for a lot of nurses coming from the Philippines they will be classed as new grads and may have problems. At the moment the demand for visas is a lot higher than visas allocated and people have to be patient. I know it is hard and I put my nursing career on hold for a few years because of waiting for a visa but made the move to Canada and love it so cancelled going to the US but things are changing at the moment in the US and USC or PR have to come first for jobs and just because it has a date of 5th Dec doesn't mean that was when it was written.

please show some patience and gain some nursing experience whilst waiting and for some countries that is easier to do than others, consider going to another country but things are not going to happen fast at the moment

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This still does not change anything as far as employers having to prove that they have been unable to find an American first for the job.

From the report..."Generally, an employer applies for a Labor Certification with DOL to sponsor a foreign national for an employment-based green card. The Labor Certification tests the local labor market for available and qualified U.S. workers. If no qualified and available worker is located, the position is open for a qualified foreign worker. However, because RNs have been designated as a Schedule A occupation, an occupation for which a labor shortage has been recognized, no labor market test is required....

....Furthermore, DOL has recognized nurses as a labor shortage occupation. In making this determination, employers are considered pre-certified when applying for foreign nurses (i.e., no Labor Certification is needed"

Am I missing something in the wording of this then?

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Specializes in intensive care, recovery, anesthetics.

I believe they have to do this regarding the Unions when they are Union bound, the Unions won't approve the contract then.

5cats

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From the report..."Generally, an employer applies for a Labor Certification with DOL to sponsor a foreign national for an employment-based green card. The Labor Certification tests the local labor market for available and qualified U.S. workers. If no qualified and available worker is located, the position is open for a qualified foreign worker. However, because RNs have been designated as a Schedule A occupation, an occupation for which a labor shortage has been recognized, no labor market test is required....

....Furthermore, DOL has recognized nurses as a labor shortage occupation. In making this determination, employers are considered pre-certified when applying for foreign nurses (i.e., no Labor Certification is needed"

Am I missing something in the wording of this then?

This is my understanding also, I am thinking, according to the article.......because nursing is considered schedule A occupation they would not need to do labor certification, therefore job is available for the most qualified nurse, foreign or american :wink2:

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Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.

Yes , there is a shortage of nurses that has been recognised by the Dept of Labor and this is why labor cerification is not neccesary if you are a nurse.

The fact that nursing is a Schedule A occupation means that the nursing (and physiotherapy)job market is more open to foreigners than other job markets ,and is designed to make it quicker for hospitals to employ a foreign nurse. Unfortunately the visa situation is totally out of synch with the category A Scheduling,which makes it inneffective.It's like sending mixed messages.

To recommend to go and work in another country implicates that people aren't comitted to moving to the US in the first place-just wanted a change from their own country where maybe nursing/the economy etc is in a mess. USA is unique and personally I couldn't just change to another country for eg Australia or Canada.

I also feel strongly about the fact that foreign nurses continue to be allowed to pay and go through CES /visa screen/NCLEX etc when the prospect of a visa is very dim.

Whenever I have explained the visa situation for nurses to US citizens (which is frequently)they all say the same- "but we are desperate for nurses, why does it take so long". These Americans are thinking about the effect that the shortage may have on their health and possible effects on the healthcare services.These are the issues that are of paramount importance to them.

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A couple of questions, when US citizens are commenting on the need for nursing at they employed in the health field.

Also the people who are unemployed and can qualify to be a nurse - why can't they be re trained? Are American suppose to be unemployed while we import help?

I don't think they do it that way in the UK?

Would I be allowed to come to the UK right now, if I qualified? I don't think so

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Specializes in intensive care, recovery, anesthetics.

If you qualify and your job is on the shortage list, you would be able to come pretty quick. No waiting for 5 - 7 years or so. Reason is that we have a different visa system, more demand orientated. And it would be a work permit for that job with that employer, no less no more.

The problem with the US visas is that they don't have decent work permits. For all kind of work you need a greencard. I think they should change that. There are quite a few people who are not staying forever in the US, I know some who came back, especially with children, due to the high cost of healthcare. Those greencards are lost forever.

Why not create workpermits with the chance of adjusting status if it's appropiate after some time?

In Switzerland they used to have a system like that. It's pretty good.

5cats

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