The Nursing School to Welfare Pipeline

[panurse9999]

I am sure many people have heard of the social issue/ cause "school to prison pipeline" that many civic groups are trying to eradicate. I am here to draw attention to a similar related problem , the college to welfare pipeline.

Due to an intricate , intimate, and covert relationship between big government politicos, higher education, Bureau of Occupational affairs, and the Federal/ State Department of labor, we have a serious student debt problem in the nursing field that is only going to get worse. Nurses need to wake up and take note of the LPN to RN hoax, and the RN-BSN hoax. These are all well publicized , propaganda driven falsities that are crushing nurses into debt driven higher education requirements. These propaganda driven requirements brainwash nurses into believing that without the extra education, they will not be employed.

And to a certain degree, they are correct, but its important for nurses to see the pitfall, before taking the dive. There is little to no difference in responsibility or pay rate from LPN to RN, and most RNs are taking the lower wage, just to have a job. There is zero difference in job responsibility or pay from RN to BSN, but the dollars spent to get there are substantial. The RN to BSN pipeline is a grotesque narrative that is being sung, for the sole purpose of enriching nursing schools. The NCLEX exam is identical for RNs and BSNs, the scope of practice is identical, and so are all the pay rates. A staff nurse is a staff nurse, is a staff nurse, too.

So why go for your BSN? Its because the hospitals and other various 24/ 7 institutional care providers say so. They have all built a united wall against the ADN RN. We are becoming an extinct species, because no one will hire us. Is the BSN a job guarantee? Of course not. Is any higher education a job guarantee? Nope. Big government politicos want student debt to skyrocket , so that they can fly in and save everyone with free bailouts, loan forgiveness, and thousands of more votes on election day.

May the buyer beware, until that utopia comes to fruition. In the meantime, take a serious look inward into the pitfalls, tricks and traps of higher education in the nursing field. The powers that be want you to keep jumping hurdles , spending more and more money, hoping to get hired, and falling deeper and deeper into debt, during the process. The higher you jump, the more you spend, and the less you earn. For many nurses who fell for these schemes, the financial devastation has been both swift and severe.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

2 minutes ago, NutmeggeRN said:

I was not referring to an individual order, I agree, that is implied in the plan of care. I'm talking about in the event there is a non healing bedsore that leads to sepsis. When questioned by malpractice lawyer, asking on behalf of the clints family, how can you say if the care detailed in the plan was provided, if it is never documented as such?

In this scenario if the turning/repositioning is part of another process like wound care then yes, it would be appropriate to enter it as a clickable order. To really be done correctly it should even be entered as an order that needs to be checked off every time the turning/repositioning is scheduled and not just every shift. But to have orders for basic ADL's to click off on every resident's MAR/TAR is insane. Those are the orders I complain about.

[panurse9999]

9 minutes ago, NutmeggeRN said:

I was not referring to an individual order, I agree, that is implied in the plan of care. I'm talking about in the event there is a non healing bedsore that leads to sepsis. When questioned by malpractice lawyer, asking on behalf of the clints family, how can you say if the care detailed in the plan was provided, if it is never documented as such?

let me chime in, now that you have brought lawyers and lawsuits into the conversation, which is a continual growing problem in the LTC industry. Good care leads to happy patients, and happy patients do not sue the facility they live in. Bad care does, however. Bad care happens when bed side care is in short supply, neglected, not done. etc. Having nurses and aides spend 75% of their time charting, because some baffoon in a suit decided to change charting to benefit billing, instead of hiring billers and MDS coordinators, to cut costs, we have what we have now. And nursing staff not being at bedside, is one definite way for the facility find itself on the wrong end of a lawsuit. I need not repeat what kbrn2002 already said. Its just common sense. If we are constantly charting we are not nursing. If we are nursing, because charting is realisitic, then the sepsis style death by pressure sore is not going to happen, to begin with.

ie, if you remove all the hand breaks from bikes and motorcycles to make people get from point A to point B twice as fast to save money, you are going to have multiple crashes that will lead to death, too. And lawsuits. And juries. And settlements. Its penny wise and pound foolish to have the direct care staff take the place of billers and MDS coordinators.

[Forest2]

57 minutes ago, kbrn2002 said:

Basic care requirements like turning/repositioning residents along with all other aspects of ADL's are individualized in the residents care plan and noted on each residents care card for staff to to refer to. No need to have individual orders for basic cares, just follow the care plan. Can you imagine a world where every item care planned was converted to an order that must be clicked off during charting? Like what we have to chart on already isn't bad enough.

It may happen at some point, they might add documentation of when the sheets were changed, when the floor was mopped, toe nails clipped, teeth brushed and the toilet bowl scrubbed, clothes washed. Yes, this may very well get to be a lot more than it is now.

[PBandJForever, RN]

I read through this whole topic yesterday and today between errands and caring for my kids. As someone who has dreamed of being a nurse for the better part of ten years, I have to now wonder what in the world I’m signing myself up for. I’m currently planning on heading into an LPN program at my local community college, which will be followed by another year to earn my ADN. I had planned on getting my MSN eventually, but now I’m questioning if that will even be worth it. It appears the BSN (not mandatory but preferred in my living area) may be something to forego until I have years of experience under my belt. Or maybe I should bypass nursing in general? Lots to think on after reading this thread, but I truly do appreciate hearing from both ends of the spectrum in regards to experiences and opinions on the matter. ?

[OUxPhys, BSN, RN]

On 5/21/2019 at 5:38 PM, HomeBound said:

I never said that the VA is a racket. Be precise.

I said NURSING is a racket.

I loved working at the VA. I would have preferred as NOT a nurse. The VA is an entity---it's not just a collection of nurses. It's a concept and it works. The way that the VA treats their employees is how every single employer should. The protections there are the best in the country. The benefits are the best in the country.

Ah I see. That makes more sense now.

[LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP]

3 hours ago, NurseMomTo8 said:

I read through this whole topic yesterday and today between errands and caring for my kids. As someone who has dreamed of being a nurse for the better part of ten years, I have to now wonder what in the world I’m signing myself up for. I’m currently planning on heading into an LPN program at my local community college, which will be followed by another year to earn my ADN. I had planned on getting my MSN eventually, but now I’m questioning if that will even be worth it. It appears the BSN (not mandatory but preferred in my living area) may be something to forego until I have years of experience under my belt. Or maybe I should bypass nursing in general? Lots to think on after reading this thread, but I truly do appreciate hearing from both ends of the spectrum in regards to experiences and opinions on the matter. ?

I became a nurse in 2007 and an NP in 2011. I love it, and I've not had the experiences that many talk about here.

If it's something you want to do, then do it. ?

[Luchador, CNA, EMT-B]

4 hours ago, NurseMomTo8 said:

I read through this whole topic yesterday and today between errands and caring for my kids. As someone who has dreamed of being a nurse for the better part of ten years, I have to now wonder what in the world I’m signing myself up for. I’m currently planning on heading into an LPN program at my local community college, which will be followed by another year to earn my ADN. I had planned on getting my MSN eventually, but now I’m questioning if that will even be worth it. It appears the BSN (not mandatory but preferred in my living area) may be something to forego until I have years of experience under my belt. Or maybe I should bypass nursing in general? Lots to think on after reading this thread, but I truly do appreciate hearing from both ends of the spectrum in regards to experiences and opinions on the matter. ?

There is an amazing amount of bitterness and teeth gnashing in this thread. The students I know that have graduated from my program in the last several years all have jobs as nurses. They all like nursing as well

[panurse9999]

13 hours ago, NurseMomTo8 said:

I read through this whole topic yesterday and today between errands and caring for my kids. As someone who has dreamed of being a nurse for the better part of ten years, I have to now wonder what in the world I’m signing myself up for. I’m currently planning on heading into an LPN program at my local community college, which will be followed by another year to earn my ADN. I had planned on getting my MSN eventually, but now I’m questioning if that will even be worth it. It appears the BSN (not mandatory but preferred in my living area) may be something to forego until I have years of experience under my belt. Or maybe I should bypass nursing in general? Lots to think on after reading this thread, but I truly do appreciate hearing from both ends of the spectrum in regards to experiences and opinions on the matter. ?

I do not know which state you are in, but there was a labor force study in 2014 that showed a surplus of nurses in 43 out of 50 states. (Its posted in here somewhere) In PA, we have long since reached market saturation. Nursing schools on every corner, and the endless false propaganda of crisis criers who are paid to spread the nursing shortage hoax are just a couple of the reasons. Some states are importing foreign nurses who are willing, ready and able to work their contract for a year or more in the most toxic environments known to man, with their mouths shut, and their earnings shipped back home. I cannot speak about other states, but if you happen to live in PA I'd say do not waste your time, money, resources and credit score on nursing school. Its a welfare pipeline. A new grad BSN in my area recently told me that at the end of the month, her net pay is not enough to cover her loan payment. She is too exhausted and overwhelmed to take on a second job, so she's already headed for default in her second year out. She too, like many many others, was bondoogled by the thousands of click bait sign on bonuses that never materialized, and the bogus inflated pay rates that agencies post to bolster the hoax.

[PBandJForever, RN]

1 hour ago, panurse9999 said:

I do not know which state you are in, but there was a labor force study in 2014 that showed a surplus of nurses in 43 out of 50 states. (Its posted in here somewhere) In PA, we have long since reached market saturation. Nursing schools on every corner, and the endless false propaganda of crisis criers who are paid to spread the nursing shortage hoax are just a couple of the reasons. Some states are importing foreign nurses who are willing, ready and able to work their contract for a year or more in the most toxic environments known to man, with their mouths shut, and their earnings shipped back home. I cannot speak about other states, but if you happen to live in PA I'd say do not waste your time, money, resources and credit score on nursing school. Its a welfare pipeline. A new grad BSN in my area recently told me that at the end of the month, her net pay is not enough to cover her loan payment. She is too exhausted and overwhelmed to take on a second job, so she's already headed for default in her second year out. She too, like many many others, was bondoogled by the thousands of click bait sign on bonuses that never materialized, and the bogus inflated pay rates that agencies post to bolster the hoax.

I did some searching and found this article on the MN Nurses website (I live in MN). It was eye-opening to say the least. My local hospital always has job openings for nurses in almost every department, but maybe they aren’t really in need after all. Crazy! ?

https://mnnurses.org/minnesota-nursing-shortage-fact-or-fiction/

[PBandJForever, RN]

10 hours ago, Luchador said:

There is an amazing amount of bitterness and teeth gnashing in this thread. The students I know that have graduated from my program in the last several years all have jobs as nurses. They all like nursing as well

This is good to know. Thank you! I do think I will see through my first year of the program (LPN) and reassess the market for where we currently live.

[panurse9999]

2 minutes ago, NurseMomTo8 said:

I did some searching and found this article on the MN Nurses website (I live in MN). It was eye-opening to say the least. My local hospital always has job openings for nurses in almost every department, but maybe they aren’t really in need after all. Crazy! ?

https://mnnurses.org/minnesota-nursing-shortage-fact-or-fiction/

I am happy to see that there are articles like this one to dispel the falsities. Thank you. The propaganda of a shortage is extremely damaging to all people who have been fooled by it, but most significantly, the second career nurses who went into debt, spent savings, stopped working, and were then financially battered by loans that were impossible to pay off, due to lack of work. I am one of those nurses. We need more people to be vocal about this 20 year pre-planned conspiracy to dupe people into more schooling. I laugh when I see the dozens of job postings on area hospital websites. They have been posted there for 2 decades, and still not filled? Hogwash.

[NurseBlaq]

1 hour ago, NurseMomTo8 said:

This is good to know. Thank you! I do think I will see through my first year of the program (LPN) and reassess the market for where we currently live.

Do what YOU want to do and don't let others opinions ruin your future.

Quote

Regions

Current shortages and potential growth can be confusing when looking at regions and areas of the United States separately. Some regions have a surplus of nurses and lower growth potential, while other areas struggle to fulfill the basic needs of the local population as a whole.

Nursing shortage amounts can vary greatly depending on the region of the country as well. Higher shortages are seen in different areas depending on specialty of nursing. Some areas have real deficits when looking at critical care nurses, labor and delivery and other specialties.

Growth

The fastest growth potential in the United States projected for West and Mountain regions, with slower growth in the Northeast and Midwest (ANA, 2018). A higher need is seen in areas that have high retirement populations. Even with these differences, every state is projected to have at least 11% growth through 2022 (ANA, 2018).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK493175/

Quote

1. There's No Standard Shortage

"The shortage will not hit all areas the same. In some states, it is very regional, and some states are projected to have worse shortages than others. Some states are predicted to have a glut of nurses so there will be no shortages there at all. [Based on] the latest data, the big predictions for the shortage in the next 10 years are California, Texas, surprisingly New Jersey, and South Carolina. They are really the top at the moment for predicted shortages. We are still bracing for shortages here in Arizona, but we are now hearing that it may not be as bad as we thought it was originally predicted to be."

https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/nursing/5-things-you-should-know-about-nursing-shortage

On the other side....

Quote

But the funny thing is, some recent graduates of good nursing schools who can’t find jobs. An article on a California website called Comstock’s discussed the situation saying, “It’s not uncommon for recent graduates to wait six months or more to land a job in a local hospital. Many are still unemployed in the field.”

A new graduate nurse commented, “The acute care hospitals want you to have two years of experience, but you can’t go anywhere to get experience because no one will hire you without experience.”

The article pointed out that if unemployed nurses were willing to move to areas in need, they would be more likely to be hired.

It looks like that strategy will work for the next few years, but a report by the US Health Resources Services Division estimates that there will be an excess of about 340,000 nurses by the year 2025. Here is how they figured this out.

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/nursing-shortage-not/

Quote

The reality is that efforts by both nursing schools and federal and local governments to fill positions have resulted in a projected surplus of nurses in some states where a shortage was once predicted.

........

As of 2017, only 7 states are expected to have deficits while the country as a whole will have a total surplus of around 340,000. These new projections completely change the landscape of nursing in America and what new and potential nurses can expect as they hit the job market.

https://nurse.org/articles/what-happened-to-the-nursing-shortage/

I've read articles on both, proving and disproving, and they're no different than this thread. There are arguments on both sides depending upon where you live, what the nursing climate & population is like in your area, and if you're willing to relocate. Neither side is right or wrong as it depends on several other factors.

Now I'm officially done with this thread. #CarryOn