I am sure many people have heard of the social issue/ cause "school to prison pipeline" that many civic groups are trying to eradicate. I am here to draw attention to a similar related problem , the college to welfare pipeline.
Due to an intricate , intimate, and covert relationship between big government politicos, higher education, Bureau of Occupational affairs, and the Federal/ State Department of labor, we have a serious student debt problem in the nursing field that is only going to get worse. Nurses need to wake up and take note of the LPN to RN hoax, and the RN-BSN hoax. These are all well publicized , propaganda driven falsities that are crushing nurses into debt driven higher education requirements. These propaganda driven requirements brainwash nurses into believing that without the extra education, they will not be employed.
And to a certain degree, they are correct, but its important for nurses to see the pitfall, before taking the dive. There is little to no difference in responsibility or pay rate from LPN to RN, and most RNs are taking the lower wage, just to have a job. There is zero difference in job responsibility or pay from RN to BSN, but the dollars spent to get there are substantial. The RN to BSN pipeline is a grotesque narrative that is being sung, for the sole purpose of enriching nursing schools. The NCLEX exam is identical for RNs and BSNs, the scope of practice is identical, and so are all the pay rates. A staff nurse is a staff nurse, is a staff nurse, too.
So why go for your BSN? Its because the hospitals and other various 24/ 7 institutional care providers say so. They have all built a united wall against the ADN RN. We are becoming an extinct species, because no one will hire us. Is the BSN a job guarantee? Of course not. Is any higher education a job guarantee? Nope. Big government politicos want student debt to skyrocket , so that they can fly in and save everyone with free bailouts, loan forgiveness, and thousands of more votes on election day.
May the buyer beware, until that utopia comes to fruition. In the meantime, take a serious look inward into the pitfalls, tricks and traps of higher education in the nursing field. The powers that be want you to keep jumping hurdles , spending more and more money, hoping to get hired, and falling deeper and deeper into debt, during the process. The higher you jump, the more you spend, and the less you earn. For many nurses who fell for these schemes, the financial devastation has been both swift and severe.
About what the nursing schools tell and don't tell their students: I don't hold much hope for a nursing program to have told me the reality of the job market for nurses when they could not even take the time or effort to discuss documenting medication administration on a MAR.
There is zero difference in job responsibility or pay from RN to BSN,
Woah there, I got less than a dollar raise for that BSN ?
But agree 100% with what you're saying. I started as an ADN and learned absolutely nothing in my BSN program. I always called it Bull S--- Nurse, and as it turns out; I was not wrong. It's BS to the beat of the "entry to practice" drum for nursing as a profession to "keep up with the Joneses". A BSN is not enriched, and results in marginally better outcomes which may simply be coincidental. If the BSN is going to be standardized as an entry to practice, the degree needs a serious overhaul and to get back to nursing and pull away from the fluff classes that make us "well-rounded". Focus on graduating competent clinicians, not managers-in-training who think a BSN and an ADN have a different scope of practice as an RN. Hire ADN nurses and incentivize them to further their education. I got lucky with my org in that my BSN was reimbursed, and I'm grateful for that. Right now, though; ADNs are being forced to "pay their dues" by accepting low paying, dangerous, high stress jobs that no one wants; work their way up the ranks for years just to get turned down for jobs that new grad BSN RNs get out of their cap & gown simply because they graduated from a name-brand BSN school. Don't get me started on magnet designations...
The South and Midwest don't have surpluses. There are several places that have shortages, some severe. The real question is are you willing to relocate? Some people have said they're hiring in their areas but you don't seem willing to relocate.
I'm continually perplexed by the volume of responses here that trivialize the original post by stating "Just relocate"...as if I'm an 18 year old child with nothing and no one to consider, is able to jet set, at a moments notice. Why are the people on this thread pushing the propaganda that a midlife person who was forced out of one profession , and re-educated to adapt to the workforce, suddenly disparaged , because I am not going to relocate, chasing jobs that do not exist?
When you have reached mid career, and go into student debt to re-educate, because you believed the non-stop fake propaganda that there is a "nursing shortage" you better well understand the steaming anger that results when you realize you were snowed and hoaxed. A pile of debt, no job, and where, pray tell do all of you stuck up know it alls , suggest I get the dollars and resources to "relocate"?? Really? I'll put that on my to do list, as I send out thousands of dollars to other states in the mean time , looking for license reciprocity...oh, yeh, I have no $$$ for that either.
So for anyone else that cares to trivialize this massive, nationwide problem, with the response "Just relocate"...you can all go pound sand.
I just went through OP's post history. Until this past Tuesday, they hadn't posted since 2010. And OP had the same problems with not being able to find a job in 2010. Clearly, OP has no desire to work to improve the situation.
One take away from this thread, and a clear, undisputed fact...nursing will never be "professionalized" through any amount of education, as the propensity to eat itself alive from the interior, is always a constant problem. Until nurses stop eating their own, we will never have a "profession"
Don't judge me, or the shoes I have walked in until you've lived my life.
I'm continually perplexed by the volume of responses here that trivialize the original post by stating "Just relocate"...as if I'm an 18 year old child with nothing and no one to consider, is able to jet set, at a moments notice. Why are the people on this thread pushing the propaganda that a midlife person who was forced out of one profession , and re-educated to adapt to the workforce, suddenly disparaged , because I am not going to relocate, chasing jobs that do not exist?
When you have reached mid career, and go into student debt to re-educate, because you believed the non-stop fake propaganda that there is a "nursing shortage" you better well understand the steaming anger that results when you realize you were snowed and hoaxed. A pile of debt, no job, and where, pray tell do all of you stuck up know it alls , suggest I get the dollars and resources to "relocate"?? Really? I'll put that on my to do list, as I send out thousands of dollars to other states in the mean time , looking for license reciprocity...oh, yeh, I have no $$$ for that either.
So for anyone else that cares to trivialize this massive, nationwide problem, with the response "Just relocate"...you can all go pound sand.
I asked a valid question and you wrote a whole "whoa is me you trivialized my complaint" thesis. It is a valid question! We don't live your life nor know your circumstances so the question is raised. Especially considering you keep trying to belittle anyone who presents an opposing view or suggestion to your rant. What YOU are experiencing isn't the norm. Yet, you're fake outraged at anyone else for not agreeing or having that same experience.
I'm going to let you be Negative Nelly and exit this thread because what you won't do is keep trying to trash any and everyone not on the bitter bandwagon. My mind won't allow me to process this never ending drama tale you're on.
this thread is taking a hard negative turn and I think we’re starting to lose sight of the problem. There are nurses in every state that are looking for work and running down dead ends trying to find jobs. They’re applying to positions that will never be filled because it pays to leave positions open: profit margins become a little wider. Some places only hire BSN or higher, some places reimburse for tuition, and some don’t. Suggesting relocation is not a solution to the OPs comments, and whether they hadn’t posted in 10 days or 10 years doesn’t change the fact that Nursing is facing a lot of problems as a profession. ADNs and BSNs are the same RN, but ADNs aren’t being hired. This is mostly because facilities want BSN prepares nurses and it’s a reflection towards the shift to magnet status, which I think is the same as buying yourself a trophy and saying you won something. There is some support out there pointing to better outcomes from BSN RNs, but when asking other nurses and managers who is most successful or best prepared for the bedside and they usually exclaim ADNs and diploma nurses without missing a beat. Regardless of this, BSN is becoming the requirement and ADNs with 10, 20, 30 years of experience are being glossed over in favor of a new grad BSN still wet behind the ears. Instead of suggesting relocation, which is as helpful as saying “it could be worse”, what can Nursing do as a profession to advance ourselves as a profession? Surely eating itself from the inside out isn’t helpful, nor is disagreeing or being resentful of other nurses because of the degrees they hold. At this point, the only option is to continue your education because whether or not you learn a single thing in a BSN program, it’s the minimum requirement now unless you have strong connections that can help you find work. Network with people who make hiring decisions in systems that pay reimburse for tuition. I’ll advocate for ADN nurses forever, but without the BSN in my location the only jobs available to me were subacute, home care, and outpatient care- there’s nothing wrong with that, but I wanted acute care experience and so I went back to school even if I think it’s BS. Our opinions don’t matter on this, it’s just the way things are changing and whether you agree or accept it or not doesn’t change it- adaptation is all we can do. There are ways to avoid the crippling debt, though; and it might take some research and resume tailoring to get there.
ADNs and BSNs are the same RN, but ADNs aren’t being hired. This is mostly because facilities want BSN prepares nurses and it’s a reflection towards the shift to magnet status, which I think is the same as buying yourself a trophy and saying you won something.
Exactly true...and the major magnet hospital near me has dozens upon dozens of RN jobs posted (BSN required) , that sit on the "careers" tab on their website year in and year out, going deliberately unfilled. But that does not stop this magnet hospital (who has had a 2 year hiring freeze active and known) from continually spamming the job boards everywhere, to create the impression of a huge, emergent shortage, bonuses included. Even the new grad BSNs are not being hired there, unless they have that needed "in" with someone.
And even if they (BSN new grad) do get hired, they have to do a 1 year intern/ preceptor residency, no matter what. SO basically, its a 5 year cycle for a new nurse to even get to the bedside in that hospital system. Overkill. And don't get me started on the barriers to employment that they put up in addition to BSN...no smokers, recent med/surg experience required, Flu shot mandatory, expert references, etc.
Meanwhile, they keep moving the goal post to the right, meaning you enter into a very costly never ending cycle of higher education, re-education, certification requirements, and additional degrees. It reminds me of the technology trap, where you have to keep buying the newest version of iphone if you want to keep using your "apps."
I'm continually perplexed by the volume of responses here that trivialize the original post by stating "Just relocate"...as if I'm an 18 year old child with nothing and no one to consider, is able to jet set, at a moments notice. Why are the people on this thread pushing the propaganda that a midlife person who was forced out of one profession , and re-educated to adapt to the workforce, suddenly disparaged , because I am not going to relocate, chasing jobs that do not exist?
While I think that the "nursing shortage" is indeed mostly propaganda put out by hospital systems in order to cover for the fact that they deliberately understaff their units in order to save $$$, there are actually pockets where nursing jobs are plentiful, even for those without the BSN. Rural areas in particular often are constantly in short supply of nurses.
I also get that not everyone can re-locate, particularly those with children or elderly relatives who need care or local advocates. But saying that no jobs exist is disingenuous.
Having completed a military career, where forced periodic relocation is required, I can assure you that relocation every so often is no picnic and certainly not without steep costs, whether or not the individual is moving only themselves or a family. And in that situation, supposedly the govt “covers” the cost of the move and there is a job on the other side. Each time I moved my family, I went into unnecessary debt that took a great deal of time to recover from. Then we had to do it all again. More loans, more maxing out the credit cards, ad nauseam. I would never suggest to the OP that she relocate without adding the caveat “if possible”. Then I would never berate her if she said she could not.
While I think that the "nursing shortage" is indeed mostly propaganda put out by hospital systems in order to cover for the fact that they deliberately understaff their units in order to save $$$, there are indeed pockets where nursing jobs are plentiful, even for those without the BSN. Rural areas in particular often are constantly in short supply of nurses.
I also get that not everyone can re-locate, particularly those with children or elderly relatives who need care or local advocates. But saying that no jobs exist is disingenuous.
I have even tried putting applications in with the rural hospitals and nursing homes (relocation required) to see if I get a bite, a call, whatever, and its been crickets. Sadly, I am actively pursuing work outside the profession because market saturation here in PA, has caused tidal volume effect (over flow migration of nurses to the north, south, east west). Yet, even with this complete market saturation of nurses, nursing schools keep popping up every couple of miles, when there are not enough jobs to support the number of licensed nurses. Even so, our State Board of Nursing is overwhelmed with reciprocity applications, apparently from other states where those nurses cannot find work.
With what very little (minute) savings I have left (like enough to fix a flat tire) , I cannot afford the RN-BSN degree, and do not qualify for a loan, since my current ones are in default mode. Relocation is out of the question, unless I will the lottery, or that phantom dream job offer arrives in the mail, which includes moving expenses, and a 10 year job contract.
Each time I moved my family, I went into unnecessary debt that took a great deal of time to recover from. Then we had to do it all again. More loans, more maxing out the credit cards, ad nauseam. I would never suggest to the OP that she relocate without adding the caveat “if possible”. Then I would never berate her if she said she could not.
Thank you for words of wise-ness. The old fable keeps coming to mind as I read the volume of "just relocate" "just re-educate" responses:
The person who continually reached for the high reaching fruit, because she was told it was ripe, good for her, and the only fruit worthy of picking from the tree. So she climbed, and climbed the tree, stepping from branch to branch to branch, reaching higher and higher to finally get her hands on the ripe piece of fruit, only to twist her ankle on the final reach, careening down, hitting every branch on the way down. Hitting the ground hard and rolling away, downhill, never to be found again.
I am sure many people have heard of the social issue/ cause "school to prison pipeline" that many civic groups are trying to eradicate. I am here to draw attention to a similar related problem , the college to welfare pipeline.
Due to an intricate , intimate, and covert relationship between big government politicos, higher education, Bureau of Occupational affairs, and the Federal/ State Department of labor, we have a serious student debt problem in the nursing field that is only going to get worse. Nurses need to wake up and take note of the LPN to RN hoax, and the RN-BSN hoax. These are all well publicized , propaganda driven falsities that are crushing nurses into debt driven higher education requirements. These propaganda driven requirements brainwash nurses into believing that without the extra education, they will not be employed.
And to a certain degree, they are correct, but its important for nurses to see the pitfall, before taking the dive. There is little to no difference in responsibility or pay rate from LPN to RN, and most RNs are taking the lower wage, just to have a job. There is zero difference in job responsibility or pay from RN to BSN, but the dollars spent to get there are substantial. The RN to BSN pipeline is a grotesque narrative that is being sung, for the sole purpose of enriching nursing schools. The NCLEX exam is identical for RNs and BSNs, the scope of practice is identical, and so are all the pay rates. A staff nurse is a staff nurse, is a staff nurse, too.
So why go for your BSN? Its because the hospitals and other various 24/ 7 institutional care providers say so. They have all built a united wall against the ADN RN. We are becoming an extinct species, because no one will hire us. Is the BSN a job guarantee? Of course not. Is any higher education a job guarantee? Nope. Big government politicos want student debt to skyrocket , so that they can fly in and save everyone with free bailouts, loan forgiveness, and thousands of more votes on election day.
May the buyer beware, until that utopia comes to fruition. In the meantime, take a serious look inward into the pitfalls, tricks and traps of higher education in the nursing field. The powers that be want you to keep jumping hurdles , spending more and more money, hoping to get hired, and falling deeper and deeper into debt, during the process. The higher you jump, the more you spend, and the less you earn. For many nurses who fell for these schemes, the financial devastation has been both swift and severe.
Well for what it's worth, I get where your coming from panurse9999 and completely agree. I am originally a diploma grad and was forced (coerced) by my hospital employer into returning for a BSN. After 25 years of active nursing as an RN, I got it (after shelling out around $25,000), went back to being a staff nurse for the exact same salary, benefits, and responsibilities. My BSN did absolutely nothing to enhance my knowledge, skill sets, or my ability to provide a safer level of clinical practice-nothing, nada, nil! Advanced pharmacology or a higher level of anatomy and physiology definitely would have benefitted me and my patients but NOT the ability to write a nicely formatted APA paper-sorry! Complete nonsense
caliotter3
38,333 Posts
About what the nursing schools tell and don't tell their students: I don't hold much hope for a nursing program to have told me the reality of the job market for nurses when they could not even take the time or effort to discuss documenting medication administration on a MAR.