The False Advertising of For-Profit Institutions

Nursing Students General Students

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a For-Profit educational institution would be a those colleges that aren't a community/Tech college, and not a University/4-year college, right? They're the ones who run commercials like crazy during the day about how a degree in dry-cleaning technology is at the cutting edge of the industry, right?

I'm asking this- because I've seen some really peculiar commercials. I'm not one to jump on the "lets lynch CMA's" bandwagon, because I worked with some really great CMA's once upon a time. However, I have also worked with, or encountered these other institutions I'm seeing the commercials for, and how full of themselves they are, and generally how misleading they are about the degrees they pedal.

The trigger for this post: a young lady who starts by explaining how she loved to take care of her family when they were sick- the commercial cuts to her wearing surgical scrubs and a stethoscope, standing in what appears to be an ER. She goes on to talk about how it seems logical that the best step in her career would be to get her degree as a Certified Medical Assistant. She then explains how this occupation is at the forefront of the medical field, and how she gets to provide patient care, and education (at which point we see her pointing to a telemetry machine or bedside monitor and "explaining" something to the actor/patient). Now, maybe I'm tired and cranky and making a mountain out of a molehill, but that scene looked just like a dang ER, and if I didn't know better I'd say they were suggesting that CMA's work in the ER now. After the commercial, they show a woman at a desk with a headset at a computer, looking sharp and busy. She then states "after seeing that commercial, I'm sure you have questions about your future career as a medical assistant".

I almost wanted to call the number. Just to ask how much they know about scope of practice. Now, I should explain, one time I was pursuing a career as a CMA (it was CMA vs LPN, I chose LPN). I ended up dialoguing with a recruiter for this school, she was SO PUSHY I couldn't believe it. She was nearly scolding me for considering becoming an LPN because "LPN's are being phased out, and only being used in the nursing home," and if I wanted to work in a clinic then "medical assisting is the up and coming, cutting edge of health care occupations." She then ranted off all the "cool things" CMA's do, from nebs, to injections, and by the time she got to the part about assisting MD's with procedures, she was almost hysterical. I chose LPN, and I actually did all of those things and more...IN A CLINIC none the less!

Back to the commercials. There is one commercial where they show a waiting room and a CMA comes out with a chart and calls the patient by her first and last name, and *OH!* it turns out that the patient is an old friend of the CMA (and please, remember this is not an attack on CMA's it's on the institutions who pedal the degree) and she then engages her friend in a discussion about her condition, and opens the patient's chart. OOPSIES! The last part of the commercial involves the CMA telling her patient friend how cool her job is- and the best part? "I get to wear totally cute scrubs!"

WHOO! I know all the CMA's I worked with only went to school for the scrubs! And at the conclusion, we see our friend at her desk with her headset, just waiting for us to call...

I could go on, some of the commercials REALLY make it dramatic- they go black and white inde-film style, with muffled narration and really choppy cinematography. Ooooooooo- no messing around with cute scrubs there!

See now these places are pedaling the BSN, and MAN you should hear them toot their horn. Problem is, the last I heard, these places were not ACCREDITED! And the students were left to find their own clinical sites. All to the tune of a private, 4 year college!

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i've always wondered how nurse managers/hr see these sorts of graduates. "

i was in hr before i was a nurse, i mainly worked for financial companies. any resume with an undergraduate or graduate degree from a for-profit such as phoenix, devry, kaplan, etc. went in the trash. even if your ba in finance was from state university, if you had an mba from phoenix all it meant was that you were going to demand more money and be no more qualified for the job than the person with the state u finance degree alone. plus, it showed poor judgement - that candidate decided to pay more money per credit at a for-profit for that mba than going through state u for it or a private non-profit.

Specializes in Government.

I am close friends with a former co-worker, a CNA. She is a lovely person, hard worker but totally got sucked into the for profit vortex. She has 45K in student loans for her CNA from a local for-profit! When she told me I didn't know what to say. I know it is buyer beware but where was consumer protection for her? I got paid to get my CNA.

The commercials run here 24/7. It makes me turn the TV off.

Addendum: I sort resumes for my employer and I also throw out applications from Herzing/Kaplan/Phoenix.

I hate to say it but I have provided information to students about other opportunities that guide them AWAY from the for profit institutions. I feel that they just using the students to bring in money and not providing a valuable education to help the work force. I don't feel that the students are given the true picture of what is out there with their loans and such following completion as well as job opportunities because of where they go to school.

Rebecca

It is very sad that many employers have to throw out applications, CV's or resumes.....I am very leary now of the for profit schools. I have many students that have been out for some time and still can't find jobs....

There are actually many employers that won't even look at resumes or CV's from some of the for-profit schools. It is actually very sad for the students who sometimes don't even know what they are getting into....

This post piqued my curiosity, so I took a peak at the NCLEX pass rates in my state that breaks it down by school and lo and behold the pass rates for two of the shall we just say "popular" and "frequently advertised on TV" schools were well under 70%. To me, that raises enough of a red flag that I won't touch those schools. I would rather spend more time getting into a quality program that I know is going to prepare me for success, than pay $$$$ for something that in the end still might not work. I did not look into CMA programs, because the BON in my state doesn't have that info.

Right now i am attending a for profit school for LPN.I don't feel like i will be less competent when i'm done than someone who has attended a community college. I did a lot of research before attending, and I think i made a good choice. My school does have the same entrance exams as other programs offered at community colleges. Yes, they are about making money, but what school isn't? i have a BA already, but attending another 4 year wasn't an option for me right now. The waiting list to get into nursing school nowadays is really long, and no, i didn't want to wait another 2 or 3 years The commercials are a bit cheesy, but they i guess they try to appeal to people and make school look fun.. i think its all about your personal choice and your own attitude. acout what you want to achieve..

You're totally right, these programs do serve a purpose to some people. I am currently in a private institution, I'm finally gonna be an RN. It's something I've wanted to do since high school, but didn't have the opportunity to go to school full time. I did have to pass an entrance exam, and then the TEAS (most stressful test I've ever taken!), I had to get letters of recommendation, and interview with the dean of nursing. Called around, hospitals in the area recommend this school, it is regionally accredited.

I have some pre'reqs already done, but not with a stellar GPA, meaning no way could I get in at the community college. Even if I did get it, I would be sitting around waiting for a year, two, or longer before classes even started.

Yes, its expensive, but so would waiting for a couple more years. BUT I do totally agree that those commercials are very misleading, and someone mentioned the 'impulsive' students that say, Hey, I can do that! and have a totally false idea of what their job will be like afterwards. Not all for-profit institutions are bad, and they do have their place for people like me and divaINscrubs.

OK... let me take you guys on. I am on the faculty of a "for profit" institution. You are all right. We take the students others don't want. To me, that is a badge of honor.

Ours is a 2 year program. 6 semesters from start (HS education, zero credits in college) to finish. We meet a very pressing need in our community. NV is the state with the highest unemployment rate (I think we are still over 13% OFFICIALLY unemployed. Add those that have given up and those that are underemployed and you have a devastated economy for young adults.) Our state budget is bleeding it's so deep in the red. Consequently they have cut back almost every department in every university and CC in the state, including nursing.

So, we have lots of unemployed and underemployed citizens and we still have a nursing shortage in our part of the state. Our local CC has a massively long waiting list for the nursing program and if you don't have a 3.8 GPA, you're toast.

What would you have these people do? We are really their last chance.

So the next question is... are we any good.

Our NCLEX first time pass rate is above 91%. (We beat the pants off the 4 year college in town.) Three new nurses in one of our recent graduate cohorts were nominated for "rookie of the year" by the largest hospital in town. Our placement rate is in the 90's% and that is artificially low because we've just had 4 graduates who left one job before some 6 month cut-off (they didn't like their positions in a rural LTC and got job offers in the big city instead.) This dings our "placement rate" statistics. Our retention rate is hugely, massively higher than any other program (there are 3) in our area. Meaning, if you start with us, you have above a 75% chance of graduating ON TIME. No one else is doing that.

We are accredited by ACICS and NLNAC. We got glowing evaluations from the examiners for NLNAC. Our state board gave us their blessing shortly after that. From nothing to fully accredited in less than 4 years.

I wish you could meet my students. One is a recently discharged Navy diver... one of those guys who either set explosives or disarm the ones the bad guys left. Incredible young man. I had him in the ICU and started explaining about alveolar ventilation and tidal volume and pCO2 and he immediately began explaining back to me about Oxygen and CO2 in the tanks he wore, CO2 narcosis, the bends, solubility quotients of gasses in solution... Whoa!!! I get to teach this kid because the state schools didn't want him.

You want to hear about the young lady who drives 90 minutes to and from school 3-4 times/week? She leaves her rural community between 3:30 and 4:00 AM (depending upon road conditions) to get to clinical on time. The nursing home where she worked as a CNA is putting her through school. She could NOT have made it through the CC because there would have been no guarantee she would have matriculated to the nursing major. Or how about the single mom with two kids who works full time AND drives from South Lake Tahoe, a similar distance... same situation. Her classmates collect cans and other recyclables to help her pay for her gasoline.

Now, then there's Randall (name changed for FERPA purposes)... an older guy who was a restaurant equipment salesman who in midlife found himself with no job, no prospects and not even 10 minutes of higher education. Do you think the State schools would have given him the time of day? Pfffft... In his second semester he came to me having a lot of difficulty with A&P II (the teacher in that class is very rigorous.) I started showing him some study techniques and he is now getting high B's and A's and has become a class leader, running study groups for other students.

I could go on and on and on. You have no idea how determined most of our students are... or how elitist your posts sound. You don't know our school and you sure as hell don't know my students. Honestly people... you don't know our faculty... you've never looked at our syllabi, our curriculum... never talked to the nurse managers who rave about our graduates. You see the words "For Profit" and all of a sudden you know you're better than we are. Just because in your life you were graced with better opportunities than my students. Shame on you. Really.

YES... there have been horrible abuses of government largess and some schools have been exposed as scams. Consequently the Federal Department of Education has all For-Profits under a microscope. We are forced into a system of accountability that I don't think any state school could satisfy. Their retention and matriculation rates stink compared to ours.

Get your facts straight. And to all the "for-profit" grads who have timidly and apologetically responded on this thread... I say hold your heads up. Be proud of your accomplishments. Did you pass the NCLEX? Then in the eyes of God and the State you are as good as anyone else. Some elitist HR snot throws your resume in the trash? Screw them. Would you want to work for an organization that judges you before they even MEET you??? Just move on.

I'm pretty angry at all of you right now. I suspect you are all better people, fairer people than you appear on this thread.

I think they should be outlawed.

Some elitist HR snot throws your resume in the trash? Screw them. Would you want to work for an organization that judges you before they even MEET you??? Just move on.

Hello,

I do not claim to have firm knowledge about the original topic of this thread so I will not opine about it. The above comment, though, caught my eye. Isn't judging job applicants on the basis of their resumes just how things are? I see that you strongly disagree with the bias against for-profit schools but resumes can end up in the trash for misspellings, grammatical errors, unprofessional email addresses, lack of relevance to the posted position requirements, bad font, poor layout and a million of other things... even before HR meets the applicant. To meet every single job seeker and judge them as whole people is kinda impractical. I do not really see why that has to be a demerit on the organization.

The problem is not the institutions themselves, but their advertising (like the title says....)

People are mislead into thinking that in a short amount of time, they can have a high paying career. The commercials make it look easy and fun. ""And the best part is I get to wear cute scrubs!" Seriously???

There are good private institutions out there, and they definetly have their place. I'm working my ass off harder than I ever did in CC. But misleading ads drive me crazy too.

There was a post from a former HR person who said any resume that mentions U of Phoenix or other proprietary school is dumped no matter what else the applicant has to offer. And speaking of which... I work alongside a bunch of faculty members that got their MSN's from Phoenix. I'll bet a lot of the people who posted here don't realize when they take their certifcation exams in their specialty, they are answering questions authored by one of our current faculty members who graduated from U of Phoenix. Everything in nursing education is web-based now (even in brick and mortar schools.) and I'm here to tell you, those Phoenix grads know their way around all that stuff... and the ones that work here are incredible when lecturing in their specialty.

As you say, I think the OP mentioned the advertising campaign (which, yeah... I see those ads also, though I've never seen one for the school in which I work.) However, it was a very short hop-skip-and-jump from the advertisements to the nature of people dumb enough to believe them. The whole thread has been an interesting display of snobbery from people who hold themselves in very high esteem.

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