The Doctor said WHAT?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.

Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.

Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)

Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")

Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)

Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.

Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)

Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"

Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)

Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.

Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.

Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"

Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.

Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.

Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?

Oh yes.

And when you are not a student anymore and a staff nurse, those doctors will run to your manager and will report you as being rude and inappropriate. Or if they won't, than you colleagues would, because quick wits and smart *** comments are not part of a nursing "culture". I know it first hand, because I am very outspoken myself and was pulled into mgr office once exactly for that reason.

Learn to be subordinate, pleasant and as less visible as possible.

I'm not being sarcastic - just some survival tips for the future.

I don't see one disrespectful thing about what she said.

If they expect me to turn into a wallflower, they need to think again. KUDOS to the OP!!! I love this. There is NOTHING private about a public conversation. I wonder if they did it on purpose - or if they really think nurses are just that stupid.

I have absolutely no respect for people like this.

I don't care if it's a nurse, a doctor, a janitor, a patient, or a patient's family member. It's called being an adult and acting like one. The OP is not responsible for confrontational fears that the other nurse may have on that unit, or their choice to take the abuse. It called manners. The work you do should be done with professionalism. The abuse or insensitivity of one adult to another has nothing to do with professionalism, rather how the OP responded to a degrading conversation.:devil:

Good point - BUT - I wonder what people would call it if two nurses were carrying on similar conversations about doctors. "Grounds for dismissal"? Oh please....

I think she handled it very well. People stupid enough to run their mouths in front of others reap what they sow. They weren't only downing nurses, they were insulting the intelligence of the two standing immediately within earshot (talking about the two of them as though they weren't even there). And I'm not concerned with the whole "eavesdroppers never hear good about themselves" or whatever the saying is - conversations that occur right in front of you aren't something you're eavesdropping on.

Sorry, but if we were talking about two guys insulting her personally, we'd tell her "good for you!" (or even two nursing students insulting her) - but because it's two PHYSICIANS talking about NURSES, our reaction is supposed to be different? Garbage.

And to be honest, none of us were there. So our opinions of what she did or didn't do are ultimately meaningless. But I know this - I'm 34, and there's a good chance I could be older than the two physicians in question. I may be a new RN, and I wasn't a student so long ago - but I can assure you I know a thing or two about PROFESSIONALISM, and these two certainly were NOT displaying it. Rather, they were acting like two high school boys in the hallway. Give me a break. In a private company they'd last two minutes for creating a hostile work environment. Why is responding in a hospital any different? Hate to tell you, but legally, it's not.

Specializes in Postpartum, LDR.

It's all about professionalism. The doctors weren't acting professionally, but neither was she. As an employee of the hospital, she could speak with her manager. But she is a student. She should bring it up in post clinical and ask what everyone else thought. It could be used as a lesson on what to do if faced with a similar situation.

Specializes in Neuro, Critical Care.
Oh yes.

And when you are not a student anymore and a staff nurse, those doctors will run to your manager and will report you as being rude and inappropriate. Or if they won't, than you colleagues would, because quick wits and smart *** comments are not part of a nursing "culture". I know it first hand, because I am very outspoken myself and was pulled into mgr office once exactly for that reason.

Learn to be subordinate, pleasant and as less visible as possible.

I'm not being sarcastic - just some survival tips for the future.

lol so let them. i doubt it...she put them in their place...good for her...they are prob sulking off with their tails between their legs. seriously...we are alllll in this thing called "healthcare"' together...to work together, not against...all though quite a few forget that....

I appreciate and respect all the comments you have all given. I would like to add that I came upon one of these, recent med student grads, last week and he looked me in the face and simply smiled.

In all honesty I think that is what any of us wants. I don't need a pat on the back to know I am doing a good job. I don't need a physician to speak to a nurse manager or my instructor telling them I am doing what he wants. I don't need a manager reminding me that I am doing my job.

What I want and will fight for is simple respect. That simple smile said ten thousand words. I realize docs, like all of us, have bad days and act crappy. But, in general is it seriously asking anything of someone to treat all of us like we are human and deserving of respect? If I don't "allow" my father or husband to speak to me disrespectfully (which they do not), why would I allow some stranger to? When did respect start meaning if you get paid more than me you can treat me anyone you want? Simple human kindness is NEVER too much to give. Simple human kindness, even in the worst of circumstances, is not too much to expect.

My wit, came from my father. He ALWAYS taught me that simple respect goes a lot farther than blatant disregard.

Barking orders in a trauma situation or under duress is not the same as blatant disregard for another human.

Just a simple student.....on a mission!

Specializes in Peds, GI, Home Health, Risk Mgmt.
(edited for brevity)

Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)

Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")

Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)

Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"

Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)

Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.

Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.

Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"

Spunky girl, you GO!!! :w00t:

So what's going on here? Physician insults and passive-aggressive behavior ("our private conversation," my a**!). Well, weren't they just surprised when you called them on their behavior (and in a very humorous, non-aggressive manner). I think your response may have been more effective than just saying to them, "I do not appreciate you denigrating the nurses here, it is not respectful nor supportive to your fellow professionals."

Yes, nurses are frequently faced with the dilema of choosing their battles, especially since physicians are the "rain makers" for the hospital (they bring in the paying customers). Some of that is changing over time as the ED is starting to become the "front door" for facilities where patients are being admitted throught the ED rather than as a patient of Dr. X's. BUT it is Never Wrong to address bad behavior, esp insulting behavior. You'd think physicians would know better, but as long as they get away with such behavior, they're going to think it's OK to do it. We really could use more assertiveness training in nursing school because although nurses generally can stand up for things on behalf of patients they often won't/can't do it for themselves.

HollyVK, RN, BSN, JD

Specializes in Postpartum, LDR.

On Friday, while doing clinical for a Case Management class, we encountered an orthopedic surgeon who was so arrogant that I wanted to slap him. A patient had lost her insurance, so we needed his signature to get her the Lovenox for indigent people. He told us he didn't have the slightest interest in filling out the form. He said we needed to get about 50 copies so he wouldn't be bothered again. The case manager asked if he wanted a blank one and he replied, "I'm the managing partner. I haven't the slightest interest in doing that. Get one of the PAs." He may be a good surgeon, but I would never see him. I was really turned off by his attitude. But I didn't speak to him. I would just tell everyone I know not to see him. What an idiot.

Specializes in Peds, GI, Home Health, Risk Mgmt.
AS for the conversation, since it was between two docs and they had not really asked the nursing student what she thought, it wasn't really appropriate to say anything to them. Not because she should be subordinate or quiet, but because it is generally impolite to insert one's self into a conversation they were not invited in. If the conversation had been about the cleaning staff or the pharmacy, would she have said anything then?

Yes, let us be polite good girls and not interject ourseleves uninvited into insulting public conversations.

This was not a chat these guys were having down in the doctors' lounge. It was at the nursing station, in front of and in full ear-shot of the nurses. These physicians were being RUDE and insulting to those around them, and in those situations, you certainly have carte blanche to respond.

DO NOT for a minute buy into the "oh this would be rude" when someone is publically insulting you or others. If they had been making denigrating remarks about a racial, ethnic or religious group, would that have been OK? (Especially if you were a member of the group). NO!

Everytime we let such comments pass without a challenge (whether about our fellow nurses or some other group), we are tacitly showing that we do not disagree with the comment. And this is just plain Wrong!

HollyVK RN, BSN, JD

Specializes in Peds, GI, Home Health, Risk Mgmt.
Sorry, but you were out of line. First of all, you are a student. We have all been there. You are supposed to act professionally, not childishly. Keep your opinions to yourself, or share them later with your friends, or even at post clinical conference. I'm surprised your instructor didn't council you. It is one thing to be outspoken for your patients. You should prove yourself through actions, not words.

Sorry, Richelle

But your opinion is just plain wrong. And we wonder why nurses don't get all the respect they deserve.

One doesn't have to be "a trouble maker" in addressing bad behavior by others or by being insulting back to them. All you have to do is make a simple statement to the offending party that you find their remarks inappropriate/insulting/demeaning (take your choice) and you don't appreciate having to hear them. ("Dr. X, I do not appreciate being subjected to the comments you just made about nurses. I find them inappropriate and offensive")

This is not arguing the merits of their comments nor saying that they are insensitive/stupid/rude, only that they offended you (whether they intended to do it or not). And it gives them a heads-up to give some thought as to what they are communicating by their remarks.

HollyVK RN, BSN, JD

In the hospital that I am at some of the doctors look down their noses at the nurses and do not treat the nurses with any respect. Whereas on the other hand some work hand in hand with the nurses and things go so smoothly. Sometimes I wonder where do they get off treating us like dirt when in health every member of the health care team needs to work together for the benefitting of the patient. Is it only in theory that this coming together really works? It is not about us (the nurses or the doctors) it is about the patients. Doctors have their role to play and so do the nurses. Many of the doctors do not know how to do some of the things that we do. Once I was told of a doctor who took down a patient's dressing and when he put it back up all the gauge was exposed and in a few hours the dressing was undone and the wound had to be redressed. Doctors should keep their mouths closed when it comes to nurses duty and should only complain if it something is detrimental to the patient's health.

A patient had lost her insurance, so we needed his signature to get her the Lovenox for indigent people. He told us he didn't have the slightest interest in filling out the form. He said we needed to get about 50 copies so he wouldn't be bothered again. The case manager asked if he wanted a blank one and he replied, "I'm the managing partner. I haven't the slightest interest in doing that. Get one of the PAs."

He may be arrogant, but I bet you never go to him again when you need a form filled out.

Which is exactly what he wants.

Specializes in Telemetry.
He may be arrogant, but I bet you never go to him again when you need a form filled out.

Which is exactly what he wants.

HA! I'd have half a mind to go out of my way to find him when I need forms filled out.

I can make any MDs life hell just as much as they can make mine. Reap what you sow, baby.

I'm feeling especially ornery tonight.:chuckle

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