The Doctor said WHAT?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.

Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.

Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)

Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")

Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)

Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.

Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)

Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"

Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)

Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.

Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.

Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"

Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.

Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.

Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?

Specializes in CNA, Surgical, Pediatrics, SDS, ER.

In our facility there are 2 docs in particular that will be nasty to you just because they are in a bad mood. I just try to avoid contact with them as much as possible because if they get the chance to rip at you they will. They are both ego maniac surgeons who know everything, nurses are below them and you can't tell them anything unless you make it sound like it was their idea. Confrontation would do no good at my facility. My director never defends her nurses she will take the docs side the drug seeking pt's side but never ours. Sad I know so I guess you learn avoidance of certain people. All of our other docs are really kind and definatly appreciate what we do but their will always be those few out there no matter what facility. I give you props though for standing up for yourself and our profession.

Specializes in ER/Nuero/PHN/LTC/Skilled/Alzheimer's.

I've often noticed that those who stand around and gripe about how nurses could do things better are usually those who have no idea what my job is or how to do it (ie: administration, some docs, occasional EMS people, pt families). Most of the time I can smile to myself and take solace in the fact there is a reason they are not nurses.

Occasionally, though, I do tell them that the local university is always looking for nursing students if they feel they can do a better job and make more changes than we can.

Seriously I have only said this to one person and it was really satisfying to have them say, "I'd never want to do this job." That's because they couldn't handle it.

AS for docs, I am not a subordinate of them. They do not work for the hospital, I do. They are contracted out from a separate group. They may complain, they can cut down a tree and write me up with it. But I DON'T WORK FOR THEM. I work for the patient.

AS for the conversation, since it was between two docs and they had not really asked the nursing student what she thought, it wasn't really appropriate to say anything to them. Not because she should be subordinate or quiet, but because it is generally impolite to insert one's self into a conversation they were not invited in. If the conversation had been about the cleaning staff or the pharmacy, would she have said anything then?

Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.

Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.

Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)

Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")

Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)

Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.

Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)

Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"

Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)

Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.

Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.

Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"

Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.

Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.

Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?

Are you sure they weren't just doing a good "Got ya". Especially knowing that you were listening in. If they were for real, I bet they don't have very good rapport with the nursing staff. I pity them and their patients. Their attitude will affect both.

Specializes in ICU.

So true, so true.

Specializes in Postpartum, LDR.

Sorry, but you were out of line. First of all, you are a student. We have all been there. You are supposed to act professionally, not childishly. Keep your opinions to yourself, or share them later with your friends, or even at post clinical conference. I'm surprised your instructor didn't council you. It is one thing to be outspoken for your patients. You should prove yourself through actions, not words.

Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.

well i say..."bravo!" to you nurz2be. those guys definitely knew what they were doing by having such a *private conversation* at the nurses' station :icon_roll. what i'm interested in hearing is what were the responses of the staff nurses who were also in ear shot?

someone else pointed out on this thread that these guys wouldn't take this any further...how on earth could they explain their part while trying to write-up someone else because of it. what would that say? they would look like the fools they were that day.

and as for your clinical instructor...i think she had her say on the matter & decided to leave it at that...no need to formally reprimand you! again...just how would that play-out during a hearing at the university? student written-up because of a conversation that she was brought into & stood her on ground? the instructor & university would look very foolish. it wouldn't stand two minutes...i'm sure your lawyers would make a field day of that while you go on to school elsewhere....please...talk about picking battles wisely ~ i think this battle would've been easily won by you my dear...lol! i would imagine that your instructor warned you about how to handle yourself in the future; but at the same time, got great satisfaction out of the situation. after all, one of the docs did bring you in their *private conversation* merely because you laughed within a timely manner. again, you could've been laughing about something your instructor said to you...they *assumed* you were laughing at what they've just said & *wanted* to bring somebody...anybody into that so-called *private conversation.* they just didn't count on you being as to the point that you were that day is all. heck...they probably was waiting for one of the staff nurses to say something...but it mattered not who said something as long as somebody (one of the nursing staff) engaged them. interesting though...you've said in your f/u post that these guys are finished there. were they medical students, interns, or residents? or did something else happen to them that finished their careers? please clarify ~ thx.

lastly, your mentioning your parent's profession was, i believe, done solely to give some background as to what they've taught you regarding the attitudes within the hospital/medical setting. in no way did i take it that you were bragging about your parent's profession...*nor* did i get that you're looking for *special treatment* as a nursing student either (as a small few here inferred). keep up the good work at school...do pay attention to your instructors...listen to sound advice from those who have been there before (like your parents ;) ).

i really enjoyed reading this entire thread. please...do continue to contribute to this forums here at all nurses.com...i for one...will look for them.

cheers :cheers:,

moe

p.s. i also love your spirit ~ never let it break!

Good for you! You will do fine in nursing, don't let them get you down!

They were talking so that nurses could hear them and they got a response. Just like they were looking for. Well done.

A nurse faced the doctor squarely when he abused her infront of the patient and guess what,she was made to apologize to the doc because she walked away and left him.Nurse managers are particularly not nurse friendly but take sides with the doctors.That is the reason nurses act like subordinates to the doctors.I however would like to appreciate the efforts of our Director ZS who has done a lot to increase the recognition and bargaining power of the nurses.If only we had more ZS s.

Specializes in LTC.
To "HardwrknRN"

"I do think it is strange that your instructor didn't let you have it once you made it back to school or in post conference."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? That is about the strangest comment that I have read here yet!! Your mindset is very backward. If this callous mindset is widespread, no wonder the nursing profession is in the state it is in. I am soooooo glade that there are new nurses coming onboard!!

Believe it or not, that is a relatively common attitude with nursing instructors these days. I had at least two who would have ripped me a new you-know-what if I had spoken up, their attitude being that we are guests in the facility, if we speak up we put the school in jeopardy of having a bad image, etc. Sad, indeed.

That is certainly a sad indication of the state of nursing. Back to the aprons and starched collars, standing when a doctor arrived and walking 3 paces behind him. Oh and don't forget to call him Dr. even though you are called by your first name.

And people wonder why it is hard to keep nurses IN nursing.

Specializes in IM/Critical Care/Cardiology.

I've spoken up during rotations in different clinical areas due to poor non working BP cuffs, machines etc. I paid for this education.

Also when I was passing meds with a staff nurse,I absolutley denied giving the wrong med to a patient. "Everyone else has been giving this", well it's not what the doctor ordered.

There is a difference between right and wrong.

In place where I work nurses ARE expected to be subordinate to doctors. It is not the best place, but it's a different story. You have your say in whatever, but it only goes so far. Nursing can think of itself as an independent discipline academically, but in the way hospitals are run, medicine is on the very top of others. I can't think of nurses bossing doctors around, but doctors do it all the time with us, and administration is on their side because they are the ones who bring money.

While no hospital can function without nurses, nurses are on the very bottom of the hospital totem pole.

I actually was written up once for something that RT did because doctor said so and mgr was eager to please.

:uhoh21: Wow, subordinate?

And THAT is exactly why I did not follow this norm. Ask the hard questions.

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