Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.
Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.
Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)
Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")
Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)
Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.
Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)
Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"
Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)
Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.
Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.
Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"
Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.
Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.
Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?
Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.
HA! Not that I have the knowledge to be a doc because I don't, but I will guaran-damn-tee you that if I traded jobs with a GP they'd be sued for malpractice before I would!
And subordinate??? I won't even touch that one.
The Dr. was out of line and I think that you did great. You didn't buck up and get mouthy, you just said what everyone else wanted to say but didn't have the guts. If you said it in front of patients then you were probably out of line, but if it was at the nurses station and it was in front of the docs and nurses, then I think you just gave as good as you got. Good for you.
Sorry but I'm from the Bronx and I do NOT play those kinds of games. If any doctor had done even one of the things that you described I would hire some hoodlums from around the way to meet him in the parking lot after hours.
you handled it very well...... i dearly hope not all hospitals side with the doctors cause when time comes they might run out of competent assertive nurses......
Specializes in ICU, Paeds ICU, Correctional, Education.
In place where I work nurses ARE expected to be subordinate to doctors. It is not the best place, but it's a different story. You have your say in whatever, but it only goes so far. Nursing can think of itself as an independent discipline academically, but in the way hospitals are run, medicine is on the very top of others. I can't think of nurses bossing doctors around, but doctors do it all the time with us, and administration is on their side because they are the ones who bring money.
While no hospital can function without nurses, nurses are on the very bottom of the hospital totem pole.
I actually was written up once for something that RT did because doctor said so and mgr was eager to please.
That is so 30 years ago! In any working environment there needs to be a team approach and a core value of respect. Many doctors don't have great diversity of social skills because of the amount of time they have to spend with their heads in books, nor do they learn leadership. Unfortunately some need to get over the "I'm special because I'm a doctor" syndrome. When they recover from this they will realise how many stuff ups they make that are picked up by nurses. Don't forget, they are accountable to someone too and bullying is unacceptable. If you don't get support from your manager, you don't have to stop there. If you don't assert yourself and succumb to a pecking order then you are not only letting yourself down but you are also diminishing the value of nursing.
Wow!! I salute YOU for standing up for all of us. It is just WAY TOO BAD that we do not all stand up for our profession this way. You are certainly to be commended. I worked at a hospital in CO where this treatment of nurses was completely UNACCEPTED. As a charge nurse, I spoke with my manager on numerous occassions about the mistreatment of nurses and I know for a fact that at least one MD was relieved of his duties. I also know that it took about 8 years and a file thicker than OJ's murder trial to get him fired, but the nurses stood together and eventually, he was asked to leave.
Nurses are the heart of healthcare and we deserve to be treated with respect. If the nurses were not at the bedside 24 hours a day, the MD's would not have a clue as to what is going on with their patients. When they realize this, healthcare will improve. It takes the entire team, not just the doctor!!! You stick to your guns. You were kind and respectful in your response to the MD, and you were DEAD ON!!!!!
Specializes in Intensive Care/Trauma/Cardiac Intensive.
You are young. I agree with choosing your battles...This one's not worth it. It is best to just smile and make them wonder what you are thinking. You can think whatever you want. That gives you power....More than a smart aleck retort. There is a lot of satisfaction in recognizing people's strengths and weaknesses and keeping it to youself for future reference. They may have just been showing off..posturing for the student nurses. They were certainly baiting and you took the bait for sure. They got your attention and your goat. I don't think you should apologize though. Your nose getting out of joint was your own doing. You choose to react. They didn't make you react. Hopefully they will let you pass...this time. They may turn out to be wonderful physicians. But, your instructor may have to keep a special watch on you...you are defintely not under the radar. In fact, you are out there flapping. (And as far as your Dad being a physician and your Mom being an RN...that is no guarantee for a free or easy pass and it may behoove you to keep that ace up your sleeve. They had to jump through the hoops and so do you.) Maybe some day you can laugh about it. I am sure they will remember you. You formed an opinion of them based on that conversation so don't be surpised that they have formed an opinion of you. That is the price you pay. The best defense with a physician or any one else is tact and excellent skills and an impeachable reputation. Wait until you hear them take up space in the nurses' station discussing their stocks, their golf games, their vacations, their new cars, their home renovations,....ad nauseaum. One finally leaves and the one left goes back to his chart sitting all this time in front of him. Then he writes an order for you to call that same physician that just left to concur with an order he just wrote in that chart.......Grrrrr! Well, You are going to hear lots in your career. Some good, some ugly. There is alot of truth to listen and learn. Now come to think of it, last spring my daughter-in-law and I were having lunch on the patio of a local restaurant near my son's university campus. Two young men seated at the next table were talking rather loud. Seems they were celebrating having just graduated from medical school. They bought themselves each a pipe, tobacco and a lighter. They yakked on their cell phones to report that they were sitting there, smoking their pipes...they must have called everybody they knew to tell them about their pipes. College girls stopped to talk to them who would have never given them the time of day in High School. Yep, they were so cool and sophisicated with those pipes and lighters. Also they bought some new fancy pens and were practicing writing their names with MD after it on the napkins. They even asked the waiter for paper or more napkins. My daughter-in-law held up her right hand to her forehead and I laugh agreeing. Seems that they couldn't get those pipes to light. One even burned his fingers with the lighter. I think that is when he called his mother on his cell phone. I don't think they ever got those pipes lit but they did make an impression with those pipes hanging out of their little pursed rosebud lips. Point is, Sometimes it is just fun to watch and listen to "private conversations". You know what is even better? Being an old nurse who has earned her stripes..... In the mean time, earn your stripes and you too, can watch them come and go, then you will know what is important and what isn't worth the breath. Good luck, dear. PS you better learn to understand Spanish and Arabic, too. When I was much, much, much younger I put an "ENGLISH ONLY SPOKEN HERE" sign in the nurses's station. My manager made me take it down after a couple days. But there was one Physician I would whisper to, "I know everything you just said to them" and smile knowingly. When quizzed I would explain that I could understand it but I couldn't speak it and I would quickly walk away...busy, busy, busy!
I don't think there was anything wrong with what the OP said at all, and to the comment about her not being a nurse yet so she shouldn't have an opinion on the profession is ridiculous!! She said her mom is a nurse and her dad is a doctor. I'm sure she knows both professions quite well.
My parents are retired. My mom was a postal carrier and my dad was a millwright and I have a vague impression of those jobs, not something I know well at all.
I am a male LPN in my final semester of RN school and I have never been insulted like that at my hospital by any physcian. Most of the Dr's where I work seem to have some understanding that our jobs are difficult and demanding and that without us there would be no hospital. Now that being said I must also tell you that in my capacity as a student while on a clinical rotation at another hospital in my area I was seriously insulted by a Dr.. heres the catch it was a female Dr.,,.. now I dont know if gender had anything to do with it but of all the Dr's I have had contact with thats the only time one has been so mean. Heres the scenario, I am behind the nurses station and I come face to face with a "hefty" woman in a tight hallway. I make a little move to the side to get out of her way she doesnt make any move at all just pushes right passed me causing me to have to shrink into the wall to avoid her scaley touch. so a few minutes later (the incedent forgotten) i am approaching the nurses station humming a happy tune and that same woman turns to me and says "shut up" I give her a quizical look, she says "nurses should be seen and not heard". I was stunned (for about a millisecond) then i was I literaly couldn't believe a person would be so mean for no reason, your probably not going to like this but i almost said to her "what!? you mean like WOMAN! and children should be seen and not heard" but I am glad I didn't say anything. That event happened 3 or 4 months ago and just now from writing about it I am getting an adrenalin rush and a ragefull feelling. But anyway on the other side of the coin I saw a Dr at a local restaraunt one night we discussed some of things we had been doing at the hospital together that day and when my family and I got our meal we also got a bottle of wine with his complements.
I am a male LPN in my final semester of RN school and I have never been insulted like that at my hospital by any physcian. Most of the Dr's where I work seem to have some understanding that our jobs are difficult and demanding and that without us there would be no hospital. Now that being said I must also tell you that in my capacity as a student while on a clinical rotation at another hospital in my area I was seriously insulted by a Dr.. heres the catch it was a female Dr.,,.. now I dont know if gender had anything to do with it but of all the Dr's I have had contact with thats the only time one has been so mean. Heres the scenario, I am behind the nurses station and I come face to face with a "hefty" woman in a tight hallway. I make a little move to the side to get out of her way she doesnt make any move at all just pushes right passed me causing me to have to shrink into the wall to avoid her scaley touch. so a few minutes later (the incedent forgotten) i am approaching the nurses station humming a happy tune and that same woman turns to me and says "shut up" I give her a quizical look, she says "nurses should be seen and not heard". I was stunned (for about a millisecond) I literaly couldn't believe a person would be so mean for no reason, your probably not going to like this but i almost said to her "what!? you mean like WOMAN! and children should be seen and not heard" but I am glad I didn't say anything. That event happened 3 or 4 months ago and just now from writing about it I am getting an adrenalin rush and a ragefull feelling. But anyway on the other side of the coin I saw a Dr at a local restaraunt one night we discussed some of things we had been doing at the hospital together that day and when my family and I got our meal we also got a bottle of wine with his complements.
Sorry to hear of the tight fit abuse. I probably would have said politely, excuse me really meaning her but just to show her manners for no other reason. You never can tell what just happened to them or one of their patients, mannerism just seems to escape all types of folks.
...was pulled into mgr office once exactly for that reason.
Learn to be subordinate, pleasant and as less visible as possible.
I'm not being sarcastic - just some survival tips for the future.
Subordinate??? pleasant??? Why are we supposed to bow down to Doctors? They dont sign my paycheck! I used to be "polite" (grin and take it), but after 16yrs in nursing Ive learned that Doctors are just people, too and they often make mistakes. As pt advocates we are supposed to fulfill patients needs for medical care, not fulfill Doctors needs for "ego" care. Doctors... cant live with them and cant live without them.
that is so 30 years ago! in any working environment there needs to be a team approach and a core value of respect. many doctors don't have great diversity of social skills because of the amount of time they have to spend with their heads in books, nor do they learn leadership. unfortunately some need to get over the "i'm special because i'm a doctor" syndrome. when they recover from this they will realise how many stuff ups they make that are picked up by nurses. don't forget, they are accountable to someone too and bullying is unacceptable. if you don't get support from your manager, you don't have to stop there. if you don't assert yourself and succumb to a pecking order then you are not only letting yourself down but you are also diminishing the value of nursing.
:cheers:[/q
30 years ago?????????????????????? i'm running into that kind of snot-nosed nasty mentality with "kids" just in their internship or residency!!! our nurse manager told one particularly nasty one this month "most of my staff have been icu nurses longer than you,ve been on this earth!!! when they tell you something...you need to listen!! yay for her!!
BellaCerraRN
109 Posts
HA! Not that I have the knowledge to be a doc because I don't, but I will guaran-damn-tee you that if I traded jobs with a GP they'd be sued for malpractice before I would!
And subordinate??? I won't even touch that one.
The Dr. was out of line and I think that you did great. You didn't buck up and get mouthy, you just said what everyone else wanted to say but didn't have the guts. If you said it in front of patients then you were probably out of line, but if it was at the nurses station and it was in front of the docs and nurses, then I think you just gave as good as you got. Good for you.