Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.
Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.
Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)
Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")
Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)
Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.
Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)
Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"
Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)
Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.
Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.
Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"
Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.
Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.
Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?
He may be arrogant, but I bet you never go to him again when you need a form filled out.
Which is exactly what he wants.
As a doctor how do you feel about doctors that act this way?! How would you suggest medical staff deal with him as chances are this is far from the last time they will need his signature?! I would approach him again as needed because his being bothered is secondary to what a patient needs. Would you consider his behavior something that should be addressed by a superior?!
BTW...I'm a nursing student and I always like reading what you have to say.
As a doctor how do you feel about doctors that act this way?! How would you suggest medical staff deal with him as chances are this is far from the last time they will need his signature?! I would approach him again as needed because his being bothered is secondary to what a patient needs. Would you consider his behavior something that should be addressed by a superior?!
From what I gather, you are in a private, non-teaching hospital (ie - no residents, at least in his department). In such a situation, he really doesn't have a "superior", since he is likely an independent contractor. Furthermore, from a purely practical standpoint, he is a money-generator for the hospital. You, as a member of the case management team, are a money-loser. It would be foolish for anyone in the hospital to take him on over a refusal to fill out forms, especially forms for a patient with no insurance. I wouldn't count on anyone with any power backing you up if you were to make an issue out of this. You're likely to end up on the short end of the stick.
What should you do about this in the future? Exactly what he said, go see his PAs. That's why he pays their salary, so that he doesn't have to be bothered with forms.
Although he was brusque, try to understand his perspective. Medicine is still a clearly defined hierarchy. He put in his time as a paper-pushing monkey as a resident, built a successful practice, and now he's at the top of the food chain. When you need a signature on a form, you start lower on the totem pole (ie - residents or mid-levels). You wouldn't call the Governor to get a driver's license, and you don't bother the head of a surgical practice to sign paper.
HA! I'd have half a mind to go out of my way to find him when I need forms filled out.
I can make any MDs life hell just as much as they can make mine. Reap what you sow, baby.
I'm feeling especially ornery tonight.:chuckle
Makes me think of an old episode of ER when Carter started acting a bit cocky with the nurses and they decided to "take him down." He was trying to sleep in the call room and they kept waking him up for stupid things. Finally Carrie said "You better find out what you did to **** 'em off."
And when you are not a student anymore and a staff nurse, those doctors will run to your manager and will report you as being rude and inappropriate. Or if they won't, than you colleagues would, because quick wits and smart *** comments are not part of a nursing "culture". I know it first hand, because I am very outspoken myself and was pulled into mgr office once exactly for that reason.
Learn to be subordinate, pleasant and as less visible as possible.
I'm not being sarcastic - just some survival tips for the future.
everybody who works in the hospital is part of the medical team. i believe that doctors should understand the work we nurses are doing.those doctors shouldn't have grumbled...if they find something they didn't like, they should have said it properly...in a more subtle way...
Our facility had a doctor that felt the nursing staff could improve on their efficiency and he decided to prepare a lecture hour on how we could do our jobs better. He was challenged to be a nurse for day. He took on the challenge. He showed up for report bright & early at 6:30 & took a 7 patient load. He proceeded to be shocked at being asked to toilet a few people & assist someone with cutting their pancakes. He became so stressed out over all of the medications during med pass that he nearly made a med-error involving morphine and the wrong patient. Luckily, a NURSE was standing by and caught it. He decided that he'd had enough by 11:30 and went home. According to his wife, he was stressed out and needed a nap when he got home. The lecture hour topic changed to the history of nursing after that.
I have a lot of respect for this physician because he decided to walk in our shoes for a bit. I think more doctors should try it.
hmmm can nurses also report doctors acting s**t?? do medical schools ever teach their doctors about work ethics or something?? :smiley_abbut u know as a nurse whether a student or a professional, u should know when to speak and what to speak about..if doctors are rude to you, be professional and try to avoid having a convo with the docotr again..if u cant, a smart and subtle remark doesnt hurt...u dont have to say anything as bluntly as u want to... subordinate??id rather have it as partnership... :cheers:
growing old is inevitable...growing up is optional
Well here's the thing......they were having a conversation between the two of them. (Since they chose to have it in front of the nurses' station within your earshot I would dispute how private they wanted it to be), but the conversation was their conversation and they were expressing their opinions, however ignorant and ill-informed they might have been. So you really had no right to do what you did. If they had addressed you or the nurses, that would have been a different matter.
I appreciate your feelings. I am the first person to say that you should not take abuse or disrespect of any kind when it is directed at you.
And to answer your question, no I don't have to listen to docs speak that way. I realize that they don't have a clue about my job but at least they are polite enough to keep it to themselves.
Sharon - having a 'private' conversation is just that - in PRIVATE. How do you think those two doctors would have responded, had two nurses chosen to have a conversation in front of them, denigrating DOCTORS?
I submit that they were testing their hubris by discussing the nursing profession where they knew full well that they could be overheard.
Our facility had a doctor that felt the nursing staff could improve on their efficiency and he decided to prepare a lecture hour on how we could do our jobs better. He was challenged to be a nurse for day. He took on the challenge. He showed up for report bright & early at 6:30 & took a 7 patient load. He proceeded to be shocked at being asked to toilet a few people & assist someone with cutting their pancakes. He became so stressed out over all of the medications during med pass that he nearly made a med-error involving morphine and the wrong patient. Luckily, a NURSE was standing by and caught it. He decided that he'd had enough by 11:30 and went home. According to his wife, he was stressed out and needed a nap when he got home. The lecture hour topic changed to the history of nursing after that.
I have a lot of respect for this physician because he decided to walk in our shoes for a bit. I think more doctors should try it.
Well, good for this doc to actually face the challenge - and find out that our shoes aren't easy to fill!:up:
learn to be subordinate, pleasant and as less visible as possible.
.
over my dead body!
i am a professional with over seven years of college, two degrees, and was a combat army officer. i am always respectful and polite, but it will be a cold day in hades when i go hide with my tail tucked and mouth shut.:angryfire
btw-never been fired or unemployed..its all about respect.
Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.
Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.
Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)
Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")
Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)
Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.
Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)
Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"
Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)
Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.
Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.
Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"
Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.
Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.
Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?
Thats Nonesense! Thumbs up for you standing up for yourself. Theres no way I could stood there and took it either thats unexceptable.....unexceptable
:up:
Batman24
1,975 Posts
As a doctor how do you feel about doctors that act this way?! How would you suggest medical staff deal with him as chances are this is far from the last time they will need his signature?! I would approach him again as needed because his being bothered is secondary to what a patient needs. Would you consider his behavior something that should be addressed by a superior?!
BTW...I'm a nursing student and I always like reading what you have to say.