The Controversy: Mandatory Flu Vaccines

Many hospitals are moving towards creating mandatory influenza vaccination policies as a condition of employment. Such mandates are causing surefire responses on both sides of the fence. What is the push behind the movement, and what is causing the pushback?

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First, let me just go over some of the symptoms of the flu, and then we will get down to business on the controversy surrounding the push to create mandatory flu vaccines for healthcare workers:

  • Sudden onset fever
  • Headache
  • Chills
  • Myalgia
  • Dry cough
  • Sore throat
  • Stuffy nose
  • Loss of appetite
  • Limb or joint pain
  • Difficulty sleeping
  • Diarrhea or upset stomach

I can't think of anyone who wants any of these symptoms, or to come down with the flu, can you?

Influenza vaccination research has clearly documented the benefits of receiving the flu vaccine (Google it - you will find a plethora of information...however, I will list some links at the end of this article for your information). However, even though there is sufficient evidence to prove the benefits of receiving the flu vaccine, vaccination rates among healthcare workers are pitifully low. In 2013, only 55% of nurses in the frontlines were vaccinated.

Organizations such as The Joint Commission, the American Nurses Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American College of Physicians, Infectious Diseases Society of America, the Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, the Centers for Disease Control, Healthy People 2020, etc., etc., have stated their position on recommending the flu vaccine for healthcare workers in order to decrease the risk of exposure and reduce deaths. Due to this recommendation, many healthcare facilities are now creating mandatory flu vaccine policies as a condition of employment.

Employers who create mandatory policies will have exemptions, of course. Exemptions are made for medical and religious exceptions. For places that do not have a mandatory flu vaccine, they may "strongly recommend" the vaccination and may have a declination form for employees to submit if they refuse the vaccine. Additionally, some employers will enforce refusers to wear a mask during flu season while they are at work in order to protect the patients and the employee.

What is the purpose behind the push toward flu vaccines?

Evidence has shown that there are more than 36,000 deaths in the US each year related to influenza, and more than 200,000 hospitalizations. Influenza is the 6th leading cause of death. Healthcare workers are the leading cause of influenza outbreaks in the healthcare system. up to 50% of people who are infected by the flu virus do not fill ill for several days and can spread the virus to people at risk of complications and death from the flu. Additionally, evidence shows vaccination decreases mortality by 40%, decreases the spread of nosocomial infections by 43%, and decreases absenteeism by 20-30%.

Additionally, there is the ethics to consider. As healthcare workers, we have all taken an oath to "do no harm". As a nurse caring for patients who are not in their most physically healthy state, do we take the vaccination in order to prevent spreading the flu to our vulnerable patients, in order to "do no harm"? We must consider this when we make our decision to take or refuse the vaccination.

What hospitals have created a mandatory flu vaccine policy?

I have the names of a few hospitals, and this is by no means a comprehensive list. This is based on a ListServe survey of hospitals and these are the responses received:

  • Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (Philadelphia, PA) - since 2009
  • Children's Mercy Hospitals and Clinics (Kansas City, MO)
  • Children's Colorado (Aurora, CO)
  • Children's Hospital of the King's Daughters (Norfolk, VA)
  • Children's Medical Center Dallas (Dallas, TX) - since 2012
  • Riley Children's (Indianapolis, IN) - since 2012
  • East Tennessee Children's (Knoxville, TX) - since 2013
  • Boston Children's (Boston, MA)
  • Sharp Mary Birch Hospital for Women and Newborns (San Diego, CA) - since 2013
  • Roger Williams Medical Center (Providence, RI)
  • Brookwood Medical Center (Birmingham, AL)
  • Johns Hopkins (all hospitals/clinics) (Baltimore, MD)
  • Driscoll Children's Hospital (Corpus Christi, TX)
  • Spohn Health System (Corpus Christi / San Antonio, TX)
  • All Connecticut Hospitals

What are some reasons that people refuse the flu vaccine?

Refusal may be largely due to misconceptions related to the vaccine. Fears that the immune system will cause them to get the flu, beliefs that hygiene and better nutrition are more helpful than the vaccine, fear of needles, beliefs that the vaccine does not work, and fear of side effects. Others believe that they have a constitutional right to refuse the vaccine and that mandatory policies are violating these rights.

Common concerns and myths about the flu vaccination

(taken from the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health outline of flu vaccine talking points for managers)

The flu shot will give me the flu

The flu shot does not give people the flu. It uses inactivated ("dead") virus. People may still catch a cold or other virus that the vaccine is not designed match.

I don't believe the flu vaccine actually works

Studies have shown that flu vaccination prevents flu in 70% to 90% of healthy adults younger than 65 years old.

I had the vaccination last year

You need a new vaccine every year - the virus changes over time.

What about possible adverse reactions

Serious adverse reactions are very rare. They are explained on the CDC's Vaccine Information Statement, which is distributed when the vaccine is administered.

Local short-term reactions - such soreness at the vaccination site, slight fever, achy feeling - may occur but usually do not last long. Over the counter medicines are helpful. Even short-term reactions are much less bothersome than catching the flu and feeling very sick for days.

I'm not in a high-risk group

Your patients are at-risk, and possibly some friends and family members. You can be infected with the flu virus but not feel ill - and can still transmit flu to at-risk patients.

The flu vaccine made every year does not match the circulating flu strain

Inactivated influenza vaccine is effective in preventing transmission and reducing complications of the flu. In years when there is a close match between the vaccine and circulating virus strains, the vaccine prevents illness among approximately 70%--90% of healthy adults under 65 years of age. Vaccinating healthy adults also has been proven to lead to decreased work absenteeism and use of health-care resources, including use of antibiotics. Strong protection is also expected when the vaccine is not a close match with circulating strains, with 50%--77% effectiveness in these instances. In addition, effectiveness against influenza-related hospitalization for healthy adults from inactivated vaccine is estimated at 90%.

Knowledge is Power

All healthcare facilities will be facing the choice of creating a mandatory influenza vaccination in the near future, if they have not already. In order to make an informed decision on the topic, we must have information. Knowledge is power. Before you make a blanket statement on pros or cons, have the information you need, know the research, and make an educated decision.

Please respond to this article by answering the following questions:

  1. Do you take the flu vaccine yearly? If you do not, what is the reason you do not participate (if you don't mind answering this question)?
  2. Does your employer have a mandatory influenza vaccination policy as a condition of employment? If yes, where do you work?
  3. What concerns do you have about the flu vaccine?
  4. Do you know if anyone who has been released from their job because they did not get the flu vaccine?

References

American Association of Family Practitioners. (2011). AAFP supports mandatory flu vaccinations for healthcare personnel. Retrieved from: AAFP Supports Mandatory Flu Vaccinations for Health Care Personnel

ATrain. (2014). To accept or refuse the flu vaccine. Retrieved from: ZZZ_133_Influenza: Module 7

CDC. (2014). Vaccination: Who should do it, who should not and who should take precautions. Retrieved from: Vaccination: Who Should Do It, Who Should Not and Who Should Take Precautions | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

Influenza Action Coalition. (2015). Influenza vaccination honor roll. Retrieved from: Honor Roll: Mandatory Influenza Vaccination Policies for Healthcare Personnel

Los Angeles County Department of Public Health. (2014). Talking points for managers. Retrieved from: http://tinyurl.com/p6nbg2u

National adult and influenza immunization summit. (2015). Vaccinating healthcare personnel. Retrieved from: Vaccinating Healthcare Personnel - National Adult and Influenza Immunization Summit

NursingTimes. (2014). Why do health workers decline flu vaccination? Retrieved from: http://www.nursingtimes.net/Journals/2014/11/28/y/k/x/031214-Why-do-health-workers-decline-flu-vaccination.pdf

TJC. (2012). R3 Report: Requirement, rationale, reference. Retrieved from: http://www.jointcommission.org/assets/1/18/R3_Report_Issue_3_5_18_12_final.pdf

What is this in reference to? Did I miss a post about a kid using drugs and mommy suspected it?

That would be MY post on page 13, for which she was completely misunderstanding the point.

While I totally respect your capability and opinion on what's relevant to your own experience, I would hope you will respect others and theirs. Alleging other parent's dangerous to their own children because they don't trust vaccines is going a little too far I would say.

I don't think it's going far enough, actually. When people's ignorance of how vaccinations work and why that's a good thing (and yes, I do mean ignorance, as true understanding of what we're talking about wouldn't lead people to refuse them summarily) leaves these people's children susceptible to diseases that are painful at best and deadly at worst, when they decide that not only are their OWN children going to risk getting preventable illnesses but they feel it's ok to put everyone ELSE'S children at risk....then no, I think it is very fair to say these parents ARE a danger to their own children AND mine. Loving one's own children doesn't absolve them of the responsibility to do what's best, and NOT 'in their own opinion" when their opinion is based on unfounded crap spouted by crackpots....and not on SCIENCE.

I actually had measles, mumps and chicken pox, and I know how mild they actually are (except to maybe malnourished children who need real food and nourishment).

You are using your own anecdotal evidence (what happened to YOU) to state a complete UNTRUTH. You are showing your ignorance of how these diseases have affected humans worldwide....and are obviously ignorant of sterility and deaths associated with them. Nothing really mild about death, is there? And as for these diseases only adversely affecting malnourished children...your ignorance is showing yet again.

It's their children, not yours...the same as it's your child, not anyone else's.

When their ignorance or stupidity hurts MY child, then yes...it's my business. And when an entirely preventable disease (Rubeola, anyone?) suddenly erupts in outbreaks that risk MY children because someone else didn't do their due diligence and instead relied on bloggers and talk show hosts for scientific data.....yeah, it's my business.

"How do you know what those parents know?" Well, gosh, it's pretty clear I know what they DON'T KNOW!

Y'all realize you're wasting your time and effort, right? You're not going to change any of the anti-vaxxers' minds. Presenting studies and documentation and evidence is likely to just cause them to dig their heels in further.

How facts backfire - The Boston Globe

It's clear to me that leftflank pain and rusti1 (who don't seem to even be RNs) are avid anti-Vaxers here just to push their misinformed, conspiracy-driven, fear-mongering message that all vaccines are evil, and anyone in any way associated with them is just a "big pharma shill".

Sadly most anti-Vaxers of this type are so entrenched in their erroneous and quite frankly dangerous anti-science beliefs that it is almost useless to attempt to debate them with facts and science. If you attempt to do so, they will reject all contrary, science-backed info presented simply because in their extremely backward and frightening version of the world, expertise and education mean nothing (and in fact are highly suspect) when weighed against specious anecdotal "evidence" and Google University. They provide perfect real life examples of things like the Dunning-Kruger effect and confirmation bias.

I applaud everyone on this forum who has attempted to educate them - but I definitely don't anticipate anyone here being successful. Knowing that this small yet vocal population is present and growing really scares me as an RN - on both a personal and professional level, given the real threat they and they misguided beliefs pose to me, my loved ones, and public health in general.

AMEN. I suspect I have used the word 'ignorant' more times in this thread than I have in the last year of my normal life, and with good reason. While it's clear that the two people you mentioned have more faith in Vitamin C as a curative for everything from a paper cut to leprosy that proven vaccinations against deadly diseases, it's sad to see them being only the tip of a very confused iceberg. Obviously they are not nurses, but beyond that, there are enough NURSES who would rather put faith in TV personalities and 15-minutes-of-fame online bloggers than actual science to make me wonder why our education doesn't cover this better. Data be damned....they BELIEVE medicine is bad! Facts be damned.....they have OPINIONS.

One bit of good has come out of this whole anti-vax crusade of the last couple of decades: the rise in cases of diseases among non-vaccinated youngsters---as well as the new risk to vaccinated ones because of it---has made it significantly more difficult for parents to "Just Say No". Unquestioned exemptions are no longer the norm, or even permissible in a growing number of places (school districts). Responsible people have had enough of this "freedom" by the irresponsible to put everyone else at risk for their own poor choices.

People are not allowed to "choose" to drive drunk and if they hurt other people, so what, who cares. No, we hold them accountable. So now it's coming around for those who refuse(d) to vaccinate their children: you get to deal with the consequences, and that means your kid isn't going to the public school, and isn't going into daycare or aftercare programs, and isn't going to join clubs with children who DID get protected by their parents. Consequences.

Y'all realize you're wasting your time and effort, right? You're not going to change any of the anti-vaxxers' minds. Presenting studies and documentation and evidence is likely to just cause them to dig their heels in further.

How facts backfire - The Boston Globe

You are very right. NO doubt. And it should be pretty obvious to anyone reading that I'm pissed-off over this stupidity. So why am I responding? Good question. Maybe it's because while I know the determinedly obtuse won't be seeing the light---ever---those who are on the fence can still be swayed toward reason. Maybe there will be those who saw something "interesting" online, and are mulling it over....and then they read this thread filled with TRUTHFUL information by non-headcases and realize the "interesting" piece was more a work of fiction than fact.

Maybe.

I have an autistic son who is vaccinated against preventable illnesses. He has enough issues on his plate without coming down with a "simple" case of measles because someone else put more faith in a Playboy Bunny's viewpoint than anyone with an actual doctorate in epidemiology. But to see some of these people talking about THEIR "rights" to potentially put him at risk, well....yeah, I get a little riled up.

Elkpark....I think I am done now...at least for awhile. Thanks for the vent :)

1. Do you take the flu vaccine yearly? If you do not, what is the reason you do not participate (if you don't mind answering this question)?

No. There is no guarantee of its safety or efficacy. I have a medical exemption due to a history of neurological illness.

2. Does your employer have a mandatory influenza vaccination policy as a condition of employment? If yes, where do you work?

Yes. Denver, Colorado

3. What concerns do you have about the flu vaccine?

It is surprising that nurses know so little about the recipe for a vaccine in general, and how many neurotoxins are part of the mixture. There are at lest 26 different adjuvants that can be added to the configuration of a vaccine. These adjuvants are not health supportive to say the least. The CDC has not been forthright in giving the full picture of the risk-benefit ratio. Vaccines do indeed have potential serious effects, some can be long lasting, in some cases irreversible. Since the 1980s, Pharmaceutical companies have zero liability for those who are vaccine injured. Even the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), an objective source for vaccine statistics, believes their statistics are not accurate due to under reporting.

4. Do you know if anyone who has been released from their job because they did not get the flu vaccine?

Not personally.

However, my institution required me to wear a mask, permitted to be changed every four hours during a shift from November1 through March 31.

But as of March 31, I was the Only staff member who did not get sick during the flu season or experience "flu-like symptoms." Flu symptoms are renamed as "flu-like" symptoms if you get them after you've had the vaccine. Only 2 of the 15 staff on my shift got the vaccine and avoided side effects. The others lost time at work due to their "minor" flu-like symptoms. My mask and I worked short staffed to cover for them.

Dear Gypsyd8,

You wrote: "Are you even a medical professional? The amount of nonsense you have posted here leads me to believe you never graduated high school let alone a university."

My reply: Yes, I am a retired RN/nurse, and yes, I graduated from both high school and college, prior to attending nursing school. Years ago, like you, I would not have believed what I now believe, --so my point is, that many of us are capable of learning new things, even if these "new things" contradict what we were taught years ago.

I hope you will keep an open mind, and keep asking questions!

I urge you to read the links to the 5 websites.

National Vaccine Information Center - Your Health. Your Family. Your Choice.

www.VAXTRUTH.org

Merck Has Some Explaining To Do Over Its MMR Vaccine ClaimsÂ*|Â*Lawrence Solomon

Why the Press Shouldn't Dismiss Vaccine SkepticsÂ*|Â*Lawrence Solomon

CDC Scientist Still Maintains Agency Forced Researchers To Lie About Safety Of Mercury Based Vaccines

Sincerely, Carol Sidofsky (Concerned Lady)

"Can't Breathe? Suspect Vocal Cord Dysfunction!"

Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.

1)__ Do you take the flu vaccine yearly? If you do not, what is the reason you do not participate (if you don't mind answering this question)?

Yes, I take the flu vaccine yearly. But I will only take the inactivated vaccine. I will not get the nasal (live) vaccine.

2)__ Does your employer have a mandatory influenza vaccination policy as a condition of employment? If yes, where do you work?

Yes my employer has a mandatory influenza vaccine policy. If an employee is unable to receive the vaccine due to allergies, etc., they have to wear a mask at all times in the building during flu season. I work in a large, acute care hospital.

3)__ What concerns do you have about the flu vaccine?

If it's inactivated, I don't have much concern. I do have some concerns about the live virus version. I don't like being mandated (its the rebel in me), but I would take the inactivated vaccine even if it wasn't mandated because my patient population is very vulnerable.

4)__ Do you know if anyone who has been released from their job because they did not get the flu vaccine?

No, everyone gets vaccinated or wears a mask.

Now for my clarification. I worked in a previous position as a vaccination nurse. That was all I did, Monday-Friday all day/everyday. I also attended multiple conferences regarding vaccinations, including with the CDC. Therefore, I consider myself as somewhat of an expert regarding vaccines in general (Yes tooting my own horn, LOL) although I'm sure some of my information may be a little dated now. I believe that vaccines work and most are very innocuous. I think that someone that withholds the MMR, Tetorifice/Pertussis/Diptheria, Meningitis, and Polio vaccines from their children is uneducated on Risk versus Benefit. I do have concerns regarding a couple of vaccines, mainly Varicella and Gardisil. JMHO

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
What I'd like to know is how the people feel about clones and GMOs being injected into their body. Myself, I do not like it.

I will likely get the flu shot this year, along with any boosters that I need. However, I won't like the fact that I am a willing guinea pig in the biggest unethical experiment being conducted on an American population.

I wonder what percentage of "anti-vaxxers" are also "anti-GMO", would be an interesting study to conduct, as both movements share the same principles.

You did not understand my point. I was referring to your statement that "parents know their child's behaviors better than anyone" and you were most decidedly linking those behavioral changes with having received a vaccination.

My point was that while a parent may well know his/her child's behaviors better than anyone else, they usually do NOT know WHY those behaviors have changed....and to say "it's the vaccine!!" when the evidence is rather stacked against that possibility is foolish.

My point was that the mother I'm using as an example was danged sure her kid was on drugs because of a behavioral change. She was absolutely 100% WRONG, but hey, let's not stop her being WRONG from making a charge, right? It's exactly equivalent to YOUR example of a mother of a six-month-old declaring "it was the vaccine!!" when there was ZERO evidence to make such a charge. Holding her GUESSWORK up as EVIDENCE is foolhardy at best, stupid at worst.

So yes, THANKFULLY the mother in the story I used DID allow the neurologist to diagnose her kid, and stopped looking THE WRONG WAY for answers. Much like those who stomp around pointing fingers at vaccinations as causing "injury" to their children....children who would likely benefit from those parents looking ELSEWHERE for the problem.

Get it now?

Ok, well, when coincidentally hundreds, thousands more (not just one exception), see the same behavioral changes for their children and only after a vaccine...at SOME point, it probably is a good thing to put correlation and cause together. Does "science" do that at any point? Unfortunately, having to go to the same who administer vaccines, in order to support vaccines probably are the correlation and cause, is really the problem, I would say. It does not mean the suspicions and conclusions are wrong. It's not just one child, or one exceptional incident as in your story. Not only that, but, there's something wrong with demanding parents "prove" that vaccines are the cause, in order to determine that it's not worth the risk for the elusive hypothetical "good for the herd" assertion. That's basically the excuse and thrust of this isn't it. If one chooses to put a child at risk for someone else's child (to me) is the dangerous disconnected mentality. Barbaric actually.

I acually find that this article is quite sad. The reason I say that is because i see it like this:

I am a manager and as a manager I get reps coming to my door from all types of companies. Each Rep has a "plethera of resaearch" to prove why I should be buying/using their product. most of the research is either done by their company or a group financed by their company. Just FYI - I had seven staff all of sick on the same day after having the Flu shot. Almost all my staff that have taken time off with the flu have been vaccinated! (when I say almost I am allowing for the 2 that didnt).

Why do researches not share the anti.......... research or look at the research presented and how it was done. Gender, age, BMI Comorbidities, race, societial structure, environmental issues etc etc etc....?

The I want to prove my point research, appeals to the superficial, oh look at that, I cant be bothered to check it out for my self, sheeple.

Try argueing for the other side - research honestly & sincerely.

Ever wonder about cancer research how they wont even look at natural therapy claims but just dismiss it? Cant create a busness and capitalise so its not worth researching (there are so many cases to show this to be true). They want to make a cure they can make profit on!! So - is that really true research?

I will finish with a quote from Adlof Hitler:

"Isn't it good fortune for governments that people do not think".

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
There are additional causes (etiologies) in addition to vaccines, for seizures and autism (toxic environmental factors, gluten sensitivity, brain damage, etc. etc.), but SOMETIMES, some vaccines' ingredients DO apparently cause seizures and autism.

When a normal healthy child regresses and becomes autistic &/or has seizures shortly after receiving a vaccination, I trust parents' observations, when they clearly see CAUSE & EFFECT relating to the vaccine(s) just given to their previously normal and healthy child!

First there is a big difference between seizures and autism, so lets discussed them separately.

Vaccines could cause fevers, and the could and likely have caused simple febrile seizures. Simple febrile seizures are relatively benign. The risk of having a febrile seizure from actual influenza is several fold higher than the risk of having a febrile seizure secondary to a vaccine.

The issue of autism-vaccine link comes from a 1998 study regarding the MMR vaccine. The study was subsequently retracted and demonstrated to be fraudulent; additionally Dr. Wakefield was found guilty of 4 counts of dishonest and 12 accounts of abuse of developmentally challenged children. Additionally there have been a number of very large population-scale studies which have demonstrated there is no causation associated with MMR and autism.

There never was any regarding the influenza vaccine.

Taylor, B., Miller, E., Farrington, C., Petropoulos, M. C., Favot-Mayaud, I., Li, J., & Waight, P. A. (1999). Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association. The Lancet, 353(9169), 2026-2029.________________________________________

I would like to hear exactly what Dr. William Thompson, phD, senior scientist at the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) has to say, when he testifies before the U.S. Congress, as a "whistleblower". Have you heard him speak, yourself, yet? Or, are you appealing to "authorities", rather than making up your own mind, after hearing what he has to say?

Again this does not relate to the influenza vaccine but rather MMR and autisim again.

The short of the answer is that I don't need to "hear what he has to say". Anyone can say anything they want. The nice thing about science is that it doesn't matter what anyone says. You can go back and look at the data and find out if someone is correct or not; Dr. Hooker and Dr. Thompson's paper was retracted just as Dr.Wakefields was because of gross misuse of statistics and study design. They tried to analyze case control data as a cohort study, which a high school research methods student knows you can't do, then proceeded to manipulate the data.

And if you want to believe Dr. Hooker and Dr. Thompson, their retracted paper also disproves Dr. Wakefield's paper (as above). Even the discredited anti-vax heroes contradict each other.

I asked for some "scientific resources" not "blogs". There were no scientific resources there just pseudoscience blogs and op-ed articles. Do you have any scientific evidence? Or are you just believing what people tell you and then assuming its about all vaccines?