That spelled badly, contravesial thread about NA's...

This isn't the first....nor will it be the last time that is said HellllloNurse....

In the old days, when I was a nursing assistant, one simply showed up, was hired and learned on the job.....

There's probably a good reason why the nurse refuses to help...she has her own work to do.

Sigh...you can't have a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.

Mandi...you have a world of growing up to do. If it doesn't happen soon, you will not have a prayer of even getting into a nursing program, let alone completing one. If you find working as a CNA so difficult, then maybe you need to think about a different career.

Most of us here have been aides; you have not been a nurse. You have no clue what it is like, and that's OK...I had a lot to learn when I went to school. But what I didn't do was judge other nurses, and criticize how they did their job. It is not your place to do so. It absolutely infuriates me when I see someone like you behaving in this manner, so superior, so sure of how the job is supposed to be done. Tell me, you are able to make that judgement based on WHAT??

Before you are so quick to rush to judgement, make sure you know what the heck you are talking about. If you carry on like that in nursing school, I can guarantee you that you will not last the semester.

Originally posted by fab4fan

Sigh...you can't have a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.

Amen, sista!!!

been on clinical placements where registered nurses seem to believe that everything below drug administration can be left to 'untrained' staff (now named support assistants and not 'nursing auxilliaries'), where SA's jump in regimented style opening all the windows in december to 'get some air', gettting everyone out in chairs in the morning 'because they've got their beds to do' and see the whole day as a series of ticks to cross off as job done, doing clinical observations with no idea of what's to be reported or what's not, whipping pressure relieving mattresses off beds because 'they're costing the ward' without a glance at a care plan and have been horrified to hear patients refer to these people as nurse.

I have also been on placements where SA's perform tasks way above and beyond those for which they are paid, spending time with patients performing clinical skills, developing themselves through NVQ training and gaining very little in reward, where the most that is seen from the RN is a jot in the nursing evaluation reading 'all cares given'............Just what does that mean??

Each ward I have been on has a philosophy of care, they also have a ward manager, the ward manager is responsible for the staff and the 'care' given by their staff...the roles and responsibilities should be set out and adhered to, if SA's are failing patients then it is up to the ward manager to sort these issues out..As for calling them nurses, well what is a nurse? what is nursing? It is not just a qualification or a title it is a thing that people do, all people at some time or other. To call oneself a registered nurse though requires the person to be on the register.

BritishStudent, well, what can I say?, I hope you lose the attitude on qualification, team working, remember that? each has a role to play. Your responsibility will be the welfare of your patients whoever delivers the 'care'! Your documentation must be able to withstand scrutiny (making sense to yourself is not enough!) and you must practise as part of a healthcare delivery team........

its late and i'v just found this thread yes i'm mentally and physically exhausted from trying to keep my head above paerwork and take care of the people i'm paid to look including untrained members of staff after and quite frankly i'm pretty mad at the slating RN's are getting i have never asked anyone to do a job I icould do I would never ask anyone (or walk x amounts of yards )to find someone to ask them to put someone on a bedpan if I could do it myself but try doing all that stuff when Docs or relatives are shouting for your attention Rns are just one person like everyone else and yes basic nursing care is great but who added all the other bits after I qualified (26 years now) i never signed up for all the paerwork , all the threats of being reported by relatives other members of staff, making sure that i document everything to cover my ass if things should go wrong etc, why can't all grades of nurse just stick together it would make things so much easier instead of fighting indifferent corners now I cant spell because i,m knackered so i'm going to bed eyemmeff I agree withg most things you say maybe its time i was thinking of getting out.

I just read this thread, and to be honest it was quite shocking.

I am a student nurse and on placements I have seen auxillary nurses answering to the call of nurse... but then on placement I do as well, I work on the theory that if someone is shouting for help, I'll help them, even if it means just telling them that I will fetch the SN.

The placement I am on at the moment is fantastic, the SN and the AN's work well togther, the bed and baths are done as a team, when the SN's do the meddies the auxillaries start getting the breakfast trolley ready. The system works really well.

I have been on wards where the SN have little contact with the 'dirty' jobs, try doing a late shift or a night shift on these types of wards, when the SN have the time they will do these tasks... (and as for the NA (yes n/a not AN) who complain abut doing these tasks, hello what were you employed for?)

I was on one placement looking after cancer patients, and the ward only employed SNs for the night shift, and as there were no doctors round etc, the Nurses were able to care for their patients.

Registered Nurses in my view do a fantastic job of looking after patients but in putting up with the demands student nurses place on their time.My last CAP document required 87 signatures from my mentor, not something that could be done whilst helping with a bed bath.

Sorry for ranting, but I am very tired, and have a tonne of work to do,

Whisper

PS: British Student my spelling on medical words is pretty bad, so because my dictionary won't fit in my tunic pocket I have words like "diarrhoea" writen inside the cover of the notebook I use for handover notes. So I don't have to waste time looking them up.

:)

oh spelling...........was given a medical dictionary by my first ward sister and told to use it!

Chris- I understand you are shattered- I qualified 23 yrs ago and got out into general practice. I thought the pace would be slower but its not but the team work is great and the docs have been known to do dressings when I'm too busy! we all look out for each other- its a great atmosphere to work in. the down side is I know my patients really well- and when they die, I grieve like a relative! that hurts- specially when its a child. other than that- I love it!

Karen

And there was me thinking it was finally dead.

hey British Student theres a lot of things you cant do after a 13 hour shift but high on my list of things to do is not form a complicated political comment!

Hmmmm, thinking hat on now...

Factoids (being poorly contructed facts)

-Nursing = what nurses do = The provision of care

-Care requirements have difrent componencts (say IVI's and bed baths) both important care requirments but the backgroud education required to perform them is significantly difrent

-RN's are performing tasks that NA's do on many wards.

-The performace of NA's in some fascets of care is better than RN's can provide (partialy beacuse of time factors, partialy other reasons)

questioniod (questions I cant answer beacuse im not entirely sure what the question actualy is...)

-Why cant we accept that the invisable task (NA's) are nurses in their own right? Not trained with 3 years academdic knowledge and advanced skills.

But,

for lack of a better definition than the above one, 'nurses nurse', 'provide nursing care', 'we are nursing'

Therefore nurses (not RNs or NAa, but 'Nurses') are still providing nursing care, those core nursing activities that we vaunt so very much....

So why are we worried about the transmition of tasks to NA's?

Tribalism maybe.....

dont flame me, I dont think I even belive the above points but I'm just tring to bounce ideas around in my own head and though outside assisstance might help resolve the question....

I think i know what you mean. I suppose NA's are "nurses", but not qualified nurses. I think this is an age old discussion that everyone has their opinion on. Remember we had SEN's and although they had nurse in their title and they trained for 2 years, the NA's are basically do the same thing aren't they? I seem to remember they took alot of flack too........ This is just my opinion, and i have had this discussion many times with the nurses that i have worked with. It's not an easy one to get your head around is it?

Emma