Tennessee abandons ALL vaccine outreach to minors due to Republican state lawmakers

[macawake, MSN]

23 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:

"Hey Mom, why did the government give me that shot when I was 14yo without you knowing it when they didn't know what the long term effects could be, and also knew my brain wasnt fully developed enough yet to give informed consent. Now I am sick 10+ years later. They said it was safe and effective, but they knew at the time they didn't know if it was or not!!"

10+ years?!?

Can you name a single vaccine whose serious side effects took over a decade to manifest? Can you name any vaccine that even took as long as say two, or three years? Do you have a plausible theory as to why Covid vaccines should be expected to behave in a drastically different manner than all the other vaccines we’ve previously used to keep people alive and well? It’s 2021 and we have the technology to share all the data that is constantly accumulating between a large number of public health and disease prevention agencies across continents on a daily basis. 

How much time does it normally take before vaccine-related side effects start affecting a person? (The time span is normally measured in days, weeks or a couple of months and it usually takes a few more months before a causal link can be established with reasonable certainty). 

So far more than three and a half BILLION doses of various Covid-19 vaccines have been administered worldwide. Are you actually concerned that serious side effects that will affect a significant number of vaccinated individuals, are flying under the radar only to show up more than ten years from now? 
 

This fear that posters express regarding the vaccines (not only you, but several posters), is in my opinion becoming increasingly irrational. 

Why do some posters seem to feel that a small part of the virus that can’t cause an infection is much more scary than the whole darn virus, spike protein included? That simply isn’t logical. 
 

Regarding Tennessee..

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https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-0009.12469
 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

 

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, macawake said:

 That simply isn’t logical.

 

It doesn't matter. We're in a post-factual world. Stupidity is glorified, and self-harmful behavior is okay if it happens in the course of "owning" the other side.

[Daisy4RN]

2 hours ago, macawake said:

Are you actually concerned that serious side effects that will affect a significant number of vaccinated individuals, 

How many would you consider significant? 

The science tells us, at this time, that we don't know. No, I wouldn't expect serious SE too far down the road but we really don't know do we?

It is 2021! And we have a completely politicized pandemic on our hands and that is unprecedented. We still cant get straight answers on many of the aspects of how, when, why, who etc. 

1 hour ago, Jedrnurse said:

It doesn't matter. We're in a post-factual world. Stupidity is glorified, and self-harmful behavior is okay if it happens in the course of "owning" the other side.

Simplistic answers like this only exacerbate the issues. There is no other side, we should all be in this together. I totally understand and know people from all walks of life who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Maybe if our leaders, media etc told the truth they wouldn't be. Stop blaming everyday people for having suspicious when those very suspicious were caused by our "leaders", MSM, big tech etc. Nobody I know wants to own the other side. People just want to be free to voice concerns and hear all the information and have a discussion. When they cant they get suspicious, not rocket science!

[toomuchbaloney]

5 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:

How many would you consider significant? 

The science tells us, at this time, that we don't know. No, I wouldn't expect serious SE too far down the road but we really don't know do we?

It is 2021! And we have a completely politicized pandemic on our hands and that is unprecedented. We still cant get straight answers on many of the aspects of how, when, why, who etc. 

Simplistic answers like this only exacerbate the issues. There is no other side, we should all be in this together. I totally understand and know people from all walks of life who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Maybe if our leaders, media etc told the truth they wouldn't be. Stop blaming everyday people for having suspicious when those very suspicious were caused by our "leaders", MSM, big tech etc. Nobody I know wants to own the other side. People just want to be free to voice concerns and hear all the information and have a discussion. When they cant they get suspicious, not rocket science!

Your suspicions and concerns are based upon disinformation.  Only a few people are perpetuating that disinformation.  You are suspicious because you were encouraged to be suspicious. 

I understand that you want to be free to share that suspicion and disinformation, but doing so is contrary to the responsibilities of health professionals in a public health crisis.  Sharing those personal concerns may elevate the concerns of others and that is dangerous and will result in unnecessary suffering and death. That suffering and death won't be your intention but it will be a consequence if you influence others to avoid vaccination. 

Nurses should be advocating for vaccination, not skepticism and doubt.  You should be uncomfortable about spreading worry and doubt about these vaccines to others.  IMV

[Daisy4RN]

13 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Your suspicions and concerns are based upon disinformation.  Only a few people are perpetuating that disinformation.  You are suspicious because you were encouraged to be suspicious. 

I understand that you want to be free to share that suspicion and disinformation, but doing so is contrary to the responsibilities of health professionals in a public health crisis.  Sharing those personal concerns may elevate the concerns of others and that is dangerous and will result in unnecessary suffering and death. That suffering and death won't be your intention but it will be a consequence if you influence others to avoid vaccination. 

Nurses should be advocating for vaccination, not skepticism and doubt.  You should be uncomfortable about spreading worry and doubt about these vaccines to others.  IMV

I am not suspicious bc I was encouraged to be suspicious, another simplest answer!

Everyone here is voicing their opinion so may or may not affect someone one way or the other, your self included. It doesn't seem to me that you give too much thought about that when voicing your opinions. You may also be influencing someone, so that may very well be a consequence for you as well.

This is the way it works, you share your opinion, others share theirs and people make up their own minds after they hear opinions, facts, evidence etc. Problem is when facts are labeled as "misinformation" even when true that makes people suspicious when they otherwise would not be. People are not as stupid as you and some of your friends think they are. Skeptical because of all the BS is more like it!

[toomuchbaloney]

42 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:

I am not suspicious bc I was encouraged to be suspicious, another simplest answer!

Everyone here is voicing their opinion so may or may not affect someone one way or the other, your self included. It doesn't seem to me that you give too much thought about that when voicing your opinions. You may also be influencing someone, so that may very well be a consequence for you as well.

This is the way it works, you share your opinion, others share theirs and people make up their own minds after they hear opinions, facts, evidence etc. Problem is when facts are labeled as "misinformation" even when true that makes people suspicious when they otherwise would not be. People are not as stupid as you and some of your friends think they are. Skeptical because of all the BS is more like it!

Your opinion that it is reasonable to go unvaccinated against covid because of some new concern about imagined long term consequences is based upon disinformation.  The science and expert consensus does not support your opinion and, in fact, warns that such publicly expressed opinion is dangerous to public health.  

I've continued to express the facts that the covid vaccines used in the USA are safe and effective and that everyone without specific contraindications should get vaccinated asap. Facts, not opinions. Sound science and expert analysis that is proven effective...not opinions. 

Opinions which make excuses for not vaccinating in this pandemic are dangerous when shared publicly.  Speech has consequences. 

[macawake, MSN]

1 hour ago, Daisy4RN said:

It is 2021! And we have a completely politicized pandemic on our hands and that is unprecedented. We still cant get straight answers on many of the aspects of how, when, why, who etc.

The politicized pandemic is largely a U.S. phenomenon. There are certainly disagreements on how to best tackle the pandemic in many other countries around the globe, but the degree of acrimony seen in the U.S. is likely rather unique. 

But what’s stopping you from depoliticizing it? You’re a nurse. Go back to your nursing roots and gather the evidence with a scientific mindset. Recall your epidemiology courses. 

Why is the how, when, why and who important? Of course there is value to learning the answers to the questions you have (whatever they are), but whether this was a lab leak or came from the Wuhan market doesn’t change the strategy necessary to combat a pandemic and save lives. Again, apply your nursing knowledge. 
 

1 hour ago, Daisy4RN said:

The science tells us, at this time, that we don't know. No, I wouldn't expect serious SE too far down the road but we really don't know do we?

We actually know a lot. Of course we don’t know if the vaccines will cause some strange side effect 10 or 30 years from now. But he have absolutely no reason to suspect that they will. We know that Covid-19 infections kill a lot of people. And it has lingering sequelae for many people who survive the infection. We are starting to see the number of deaths declining as vaccine coverage increases. That’s a good thing. 
 

1 hour ago, Daisy4RN said:

How many would you consider significant?

That’s not easy to quantify. With Covid-19 the amount of risk from a vaccine that can be tolerated would likely depend on age, as the mortality risk from an infection increases significantly with age.

With vaccines the bar is set rather high. It’s different from treating a disease that has a high likelihood of a fatal outcome. Which is why we can tolerate the risk of some pretty severe side effects in for example cancer treatments. Vaccines are given to healthy people to try to prevent disease, so we accept less risk. But the very rare serious side effects we’ve seen from the vaccines, don’t come close to the risk of a Covid infection. Not even for young adults. 

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:

How many would you consider significant? 

The science tells us, at this time, that we don't know. No, I wouldn't expect serious SE too far down the road but we really don't know do we?

It is 2021! And we have a completely politicized pandemic on our hands and that is unprecedented. We still cant get straight answers on many of the aspects of how, when, why, who etc. 

Simplistic answers like this only exacerbate the issues. There is no other side, we should all be in this together. I totally understand and know people from all walks of life who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Maybe if our leaders, media etc told the truth they wouldn't be. Stop blaming everyday people for having suspicious when those very suspicious were caused by our "leaders", MSM, big tech etc. Nobody I know wants to own the other side. People just want to be free to voice concerns and hear all the information and have a discussion. When they cant they get suspicious, not rocket science!

Sorry, not gonna "nuance" during a pandemic. It's not an opinion issue, like what flavor ice cream is best in July. Anti-vaxxers will drag us ALL down, whether it's by taking (unnecessarily) healthcare dollars when they're sick or by acting as willing Petrie dishes for more and more dangerous variants.

[vetpharmtech]

16 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:

Sorry, not gonna "nuance" during a pandemic. It's not an opinion issue, like what flavor ice cream is best in July. Anti-vaxxers will drag us ALL down, whether it's by taking (unnecessarily) healthcare dollars when they're sick or by acting as willing Petrie dishes for more and more dangerous variants.

I remember how much people in my home country were desperate for vaccination at my time because vaccines were expensive. I received a few immunizations, so that saved me time and money when my employers wanted the evidence.

It is unfortunate that many people in this country do not appreciate what they have.

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

Agree with Dr. Wen

 

[vetpharmtech]

4 hours ago, NRSKarenRN said:

Agree with Dr. Wen

 

I don't think that a state that is dominated by Christian politicians like Tennessee would budge. Normally one may change their mind if their loved ones suffer from the disease.

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

7 hours ago, vetpharmtech said:

I don't think that a state that is dominated by Christian politicians like Tennessee would budge. Normally one may change their mind if their loved ones suffer from the disease.

Luckily my county in Tennessee has an independent health department that makes its own decisions. This is embarrassing. My mom had polio as a child, she was lucky and survived without any ill effects. I think people have just forgotten what it was like to lose kids to preventable diseases. At this rate, they will be reminded.